Model Y European Certification Documents / Technical Data

[eivissa]

This is V19 of the Model 3 Type Certificate for the EU. Since V19 it includes the Model Y, so I thought you might be interested to have a look at the data.

Certified Variants:

Model Y LR / LG Chem 75kWh NMC

Model Y LR / LG Chem 82kWh NCMA

Model Y P / LG Chem 82kWh NCMA

Model Y SR+ / CATL 60kWh LFP

Technical Data:

 

[Fourdoor]

So, is that the data for the China built Y? It would be interesting to see the same data from the California built Y, and the upcoming Texas built Y.

Keith

 

[RVAC]

Yes MIC Model Y's, the 82kWh LG Chem WLTP range should be the same as that of the Fremont made Model Y's with Panasonic's 82kWh pack.

 

[Fourdoor]

Yes MIC Model Y's, the 82kWh LG Chem WLTP range should be the same as that of the Fremont made Model Y's with Panasonic's 82kWh pack.

With Hyundai and Chevy recalls on EV's equipped with LG chem batteries I wonder if Tesla is happy with the choice to go with LG chem... I am pretty sure that without Tesla buying EV batteries from them LG chem would be facing bankruptcy.

Keith

 

[RVAC]

Completely different batteries, those that had issues were pouch cells vs the cylindrical 2170 format that Tesla sources from LG.

 

[Fourdoor]

Completely different batteries, those that had issues were pouch cells vs the cylindrical 2170 format that Tesla sources from LG.

Granted, but it was a quality control issue on thousands of battery packs, potentially hundreds of thousands of pouch cells. When a company has quality control issues they are pretty much across the board. Tesla rejects crap loads of cells in the gigafactory that don't meet QA/QC requirements, if LG has less stringent checking it can lead to a nightmare down the road. Hopefully due to the pouch cell problems that are coming back to haunt them they are doing better quality control on the 2170 cells.

Keith

 

[Everybody]

Hi Eivissa,

What do you think of the numbers recently plubished in china for the MIC TMY ?

Weights don't match to European ones
And battery capacity is going only up to 78,4kWh

 

[eivissa]

Hi Eivissa,

What do you think of the numbers recently plubished in china for the MIC TMY ?

Weights don't match to European ones
And battery capacity is going only up to 78,4kWh

The only thing I can make if it is, that for some legal reason the non-LFP packs are designated without energy buffer. Then the numbers add up.

Panasonic 3L 82,0kWh:
78,4 + 4,5% = 81,9kWh
LG Chem 5L 80,4kWh:
76,8 + 4,5% = 80,3kWh

These are the masses. They are pretty close:

 

[Everybody]

But the LG 5L would have 80kWh capacity and not 82kWh ?

 

[eivissa]

But the LG 5L would have 80kWh capacity and not 82kWh ?

Yes, but the battery only needs around 80kWh for its WLTP rating and @AAKEE did a calculation that supports that number here:

Would be nice to know exactly which LG M50-cell they are(will be) using.

The LGM50T as seems to be the latest consumer versions of the M50 seems to deliver about 18.1 Wh at low discharge and the spec is 18.2 Nominal.
That’s 80.4 kWh for a full pack.

Less capacity could mean less nickel and maybe more cobalt instead. Performance wise that would be a good tradeoff. Just spitballing here!

 

[eivissa]

Also, there are some very credible rumours that the model Y will initially be delivered as Y5CD!
That is the slow charging smaller 75kWh LG pack.

 

[AAKEE]

Yes, but the battery only needs around 80kWh for its WLTP rating and @AAKEE did a calculation that supports that number here:

Less capacity could mean less nickel and maybe more cobalt instead. Performance wise that would be a good tradeoff. Just spitballing here!

Yes, its a NMC pack anyhow I guess. Classic NMC Cells had 60% nickel and 20% cobalt.
NMC811 is the new NMC Brew but I dont know if its used yet in NMC cells in cars?

The test I read of the M50-T said ”good capacity but it dont like high currents”.
This might not really be applicable to a electric car like a M3P, as the high currents in the tests was double of what a M3P draw from the battery at full throttle.
But we dont know if it is the same M50-T cell as in the test.

 

[transpondster]

How many Ah are these new 6L cells?

 

[eivissa]

How many Ah are these new 6L cells?

There are no battery details in V19. The section is just not there. Either this was missed or Tesla is fed up by me leaking that detailed information

By calculation around 178Ah.

 

[samppa]

Also, there are some very credible rumours that the model Y will initially be delivered as Y5CD!
That is the slow charging smaller 75kWh LG pack.

Got a source for these rumours?
Order page clearly claims that you can charge 270kms/15min. Thats what it said when I ordered my Y LR.

 

[eivissa]

Initially we only had the certification documents that showed two LR versions from LG.

Then one future owner, with a good connection to his SA got to see his option code list and saw BT38 -> Old LG.

Now its even more clear as the order page shows 507km of WLTP range. That is the Y5CD's range.

The 270km in 15 minutes (not even the old "up to") are the promise that most likely can't be kept.

There is a chance that the Model Y charges as little bit better, because of its higher cooling capacity, bit I don't believe it will make a big difference.

 

[samppa]

Initially we only had the certification documents that showed two LR versions from LG.

Then one future owner, with a good connection to his SA got to see his option code list and saw BT38 -> Old LG.

Now its even more clear as the order page shows 507km of WLTP range. That is the Y5CD's range.

The 270km in 15 minutes (not even the old "up to") are the promise that most likely can't be kept.

There is a chance that the Model Y charges as little bit better, because of its higher cooling capacity, bit I don't believe it will make a big difference.

So how much slower is the supercharging profile for Y5CD pack? And how big of a difference in range?

 

[eivissa]

Around 30% slower on a V3 SuC.
This is based of the Teslalogger.de database using the ideal charging curve of both batteries.
The LG often only has a very short peak above 200KW and then drops right back below.

The chart is a SoC 0-80% ideal charge curve corrected for true capacity of the packs at its degradation treshold.
This is actually unfair to the Panasonic 3L as it can have at least 1kWh more, were the 5C LG would actually have at least 1kWh less.
The difference is still major!

This is using the integer formula to calculate the aera of the two charging curves and comparing them:

 

[samppa]

Around 30% slower on a V3 SuC.
This is based of the Teslalogger.de database using the ideal charging curve of both batteries.
The LG often only has a very short peak above 200KW and then drops right back below.

The chart is a SoC 0-80% ideal charge curve corrected for true capacity of the packs at its degradation treshold.
This is actually unfair to the Panasonic 3L as it can have at least 1kWh more, were the 5C LG would actually have at least 1kWh less.
The difference is still major!

View attachment 697192

This is using the integer formula to calculate the aera of the two charging curves and comparing them:
View attachment 697193

You really need to graph these as a function of time. How much difference in minutes say charging from 1..60%?

Anyway, apparently won't make any difference for me since there are no V3:s where I drive

 

[eivissa]

This better?