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Tesla’s AI Software May Go ‘Pure Vision’

Tesla Chief Executive Elon Musk says the company will eventually ditch technology like radar and lean into camera-based system to power features like Autopilot.

Musk made the comments on Twitter, noting that the company’s V9.0 version of its Full Self Driving software is almost ready for a public release.

Musks comments about a “pure vision” approach is somewhat controversial. Others in the self-driving space believe that cameras alone are not sufficient. For instance, Google’s Waymo develops a self-driving system that leverages lidar. 

Tesla currently uses a combination of vision and radar, but Musk believes vision will eventually beat out the hybrid approach. He says vision has more precision and it’s worth doubling down on that technology for the future.

Despite some dispute over the best approach, Tesla may license its self-driving software to other automakers. Musk said during Tesla’s Q4 2020 earnings call that the company has had “preliminary” discussions with potential partners.

“We’ve had some preliminary discussions about licensing Autopilot to other OEMs,” Musk said on the call. “This is something we’re more than happy to do.”

Musk noted that for such a partnership to take place, Tesla would need to further prove that Autopilot is safe in full self-driving mode. Musk said the proof could come by the end of the year.

M3BlueGeorgia

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AlanSubie4Life

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The radar allows the car to look under the car in front and see what is happening ahead. Good for emergency braking when the car in front is following too closely to the car in front of it.
Don't worry, I think the chances of it being removed are approximately zero. And at the moment there is no indication that the function and sensor use of Autopilot on the highway has changed at all with any of these builds. (Though many of us hope it will at some point.)
 

run-the-joules

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Sometimes I wonder if Elon is like one of those people you see in movies (and probably real life) who make an *incredible*, statistically unheard of run at the craps table, and then start getting more and more cocky, and then suddenly the dice stop rolling their way but they bet too big and throw away all their big wins.

if so, i wonder how far we are from seeing the losing bets getting scooped up by the croupier.
 
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Knightshade

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Don't worry, I think the chances of it being removed are approximately zero.

Other than the CEO explicitly saying it would be removed...


And at the moment there is no indication that the function and sensor use of Autopilot on the highway has changed at all with any of these builds. (Though many of us hope it will at some point.)


The FSD beta code was only city streets, it didn't touch the highway code at all.

Nevertheless Elons tweet is saying they're planning to remove radar entirely

(some pretty decent possible reasons for why it was just too hard to keep using radar data with the 4D re-write over here)




That said- I absolutely think radar makes the car safer since, unlike Lidar, is can provide data you can not get with cameras- so I find the inability to retain radar in the rewrite disappointing.
 

AlanSubie4Life

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Other than the CEO explicitly saying it would be removed...
Yes, but as the Oracle of Elon (@powertoold ) has pointed out in another thread, he just said it can be removed. Not that it would be. It's completely silly in any case. It's not like Elon has been true to his word on every occasion, so I'm not too concerned about it being removed any time soon.


Regarding the speculative post you linked...I'm not convinced by that argument regarding incorporating memory for radar signals. It's going to take quite some time for them to bring PureVision® to the highway in any case.

I guess we'll see. The main thing to me is: Elon saying it will can be removed I don't think indicates much one way or the other where they're at on its removal.

so I find the inability to retain radar in the rewrite disappointing.
We'll see whether it remains that way (and overall it does appear to be retained, just not in the rewritten portion). They can only focus on so much at once. I'm sure they'll revisit this proposition when they get around to implementing highway vision.
 
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Knightshade

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I suppose that makes a binding contract with you to have Tesla remove your radar. :rolleyes:


You again appear to completely fail to grasp the most basic ideas of what a contract entails.

Like requiring agreement from all relevant parties for example.
 

DanCar

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Elon said:
When radar and vision disagree, which one do you believe? Vision has much more precision, so better to double down on vision than do sensor fusion.

Sensors are a bitstream and cameras have several orders of magnitude more bits/sec than radar (or lidar).

Radar must meaningfully increase signal/noise of bitstream to be worth complexity of integrating it.

As vision processing gets better, it just leaves radar far behind.

Tesla_Adri said:
If I am the third car in a row and the first one stops, my model 3 can detect that by bouncing the radar waves underneath the car directly on front. Will this still work with pure vision?
Elon said:
These things are best thought of as probabilities. There are 5 forward-facing cameras. It is highly likely that at least one of them will see multiple cars ahead.

5 forward facing cameras? Are two additional forward facing cameras going to be added when radar is removed?
 
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5 forward facing cameras? Are two additional forward facing cameras going to be added when radar is removed?

There are currently 5 forward facing cameras:

 
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Mardak

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Side cameras can't see directly ahead.
That's probably why he said "forward" and not "front." Instead of only looking ahead with the radar azimuth roughly matching the main camera, the pillar cameras provide some redundancy with the fisheye:

forward right.jpg

Notice the white minivan isn't visible "directly ahead" but probably good that multiple cameras see it to predict range and velocity.
 
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DanCar

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Forward-side looking is still forward- so Elon is technically correct, which is the best kind of correct.


That said, infinite cameras still can't see through or around solid objects so it in no way solves the actual problem that radar does.
Side facing camera is not forward facing. Perhaps Elon meant 5 forward looking, rather than 5 forward facing.
 
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