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Dodge Circuit EV (Lotus Europa conversion)

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#21
More than anything else, the purpose of this car right now is to steal attention away from the Roadster. So for Chrysler it doesn't matter too much if some of the claims they're making are unrealistic. Also they probably don't have enough experience yet to make proper range estimates.

Given that everything in the car was made by someone else, I wonder if Chrysler even assembled it themselves. Maybe Lotus or even UQM assembled it for them.

You have to assume that Chrysler assembled the Jeep and minivan themselves since it's their own chassis. So if they had also assembled this Europa conversion, you'd think they would have at least used the same type of electrical connector.
2883557945_ef60a0f860.jpg
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#22
Besides battery capacity, the other factor determining range is efficiency. The Europa conversion is using a motor controller, power electronics, and likely a motor from UQM Technologies.

pshead_propulsion.jpg
controller_box.jpg


UQM makes brushless motors. Their power electronics unit requires liquid cooling which doesn't bode well for efficiency.



The purple hoses are for liquid cooling. The orange hoses are water tight electrical cables. The two outer most orange cables go to the DC power supply, the three center ones go to the motor. I think I heard Chrysler claim a 200kW motor. The largest system that UQM advertises is peak 150kW. This PDF has a lot of interesting information about their 150kW system. (If this photo was just a little bit better, we could probably read off exactly what Chrysler is using.)

UQM Technologies - Application Engineering and Integration Services

integration.gif
...UQM’s integration effort can range from only supplying components and subsystems, to taking on total integration responsibility and providing a turnkey solution.
...
Vehicle programs typically involve converting OEM-supplied conventional vehicles to a battery-electric, hybrid-electric or fuel cell electric configuration. In addition to performing full system integration for purpose-built vehicles..
...
A typical on-road hybrid electric vehicle conversion project involves removing from the stock vehicle the engine, transmission, drive line, exhaust system, fuel system, cabling and gauges, and making the necessary modifications to accommodate the batteries, engine generator and propulsion system. All required components are then installed, including newly designed cabling and appropriate gauges. Project completion yields a fully operational vehicle that is tested to customer's specifications.
...
All customer programs are kept secure to maintain confidentiality.
Click to expand...
I wonder how much Chrysler engineering is actually in this vehicle. Seems it would have been easier to just contract these guys.
 
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#24
DDB said:
Begs the question why they didn't go right to Tesla and partner with them?
Click to expand...

I read somewhere that Chrysler did have talks with Tesla. Take that as unsubstantiated for now, though.

Looking at the Europa electronics, I can't help wondering if this puppy has been crash tested. Would those large and heavy boxes become projectiles headed for the occupants?

Don't get me wrong; I think that Chrysler has done some interesting work here. I'm just saying that it's unfinished from what I can tell.
 
#26
DaveD said:
I read somewhere that Chrysler did have talks with Tesla. Take that as unsubstantiated for now, though.
Click to expand...

It was from this CNN Money article:
2nd UPDATE: Chrysler Electric Cars Due In N America In 2010

Chrysler's push to develop electric vehicles began before Cerberus took an 80.1% stake in the company in August 2007, people familiar with the matter told the Wall Street Journal. For months, Chrysler held partnership talks with Tesla Motors Inc., a Silicon Valley start-up that is aiming to develop a line of electric cars, these people said, but the discussions broke off late last year. LaSorda also confirmed that the electric vehicle development was done separately from former partner Daimler AG (DAI) and that Chrysler and Daimler are not sharing any electric car information.
Click to expand...
 
#28
dpeilow said:
The Next Dodge Viper Will Be Electric | Autopia from Wired.com
Click to expand...
That's not exactly a big leap since they're trying to sell off Viper. Why not try to say this Europa is their next halo car.

From the article:
...they put the car in Tesla's neighborhood, and possibly for much less than the $100K the Roadster goes for. "It'll out-Tesla the Tesla," says Aaron Bragman, an industry analyst with Global Insight, who predicts we'll see the Dodge EV by the end of 2010. "It's a new halo performance vehicle for Chrysler."
Click to expand...
They probably can do it for cheaper than Tesla. I'm guessing they won't be switching to carbon fiber body panels.
 
#29
The Chrysler PR will try to equate the two. But those in the know realize that the Roadster was a heck of a lot more work. Bad enough that there are still those that think the Roadster is just a converted Elise. "


I am willing to race for pinks.

The car magazines will have a field day with these comparisons!
 
#30
I am not saying that Tesla is not a better car because it obviously is. However, this car LOOKS great. I actually like it better than the Roadster. And the reality is that for most people their top speed is maybe 70-80 mph on the highway and the average speed is probably more like 40-50 mph given different conditions and roads. If they make this car for 1/2 the price of the Roadster and not quite up to the standards of the Roadster I think it will sell like hot cakes !!!! I would buy it over the Raodster if the price was right. For me the reality is that I would not use the full potential of the Roadster anyway so why buy it. Chysler has the financing available for me to make payments also so what is the lose for me. It is like buying knock off jewelry or clothes. You dont get the full benefit but you don't pay the full price either. It is a trade off and MANY people will take it. Probably much more of a car for the masses than the Roadster or even the Whitestar.
 
#31
Keep in mind it's pretty obvious here that this car is most probably heavier than the Roadster, has about half the battery capacity, has lower efficiency. Combine this with hardly anything of THIS car done inhouse and expensive batteries and you've got a pretty expensive car. If they do start making this car at one of their factories the ramping up process will probably go easier and faster than Tesla, but I'm afraid on Chryslers behalf for the range. The actual range seen when the car is driven as intented. It might be VERY short.

Cobos
 
#34
Both connectors are Tyrannosaurus Rex's.
Oh now - even that would be to advanced.

With a solid inductive coupler one can stand in a water-lake and dont get shocked - like in the trashed EV1 had as standard equipment.

The closure (both) looks as decent / flimsy as a Lehmann bookkeeping.

Sad how evolution (the connectors in a inductive toothbrush are no rocket science) is taking a backslash
 
#35
There have been various claims in some articles that this is just a mule and that Chrysler will (presumably) use something other than the Europa glider for the production version.

If this is true then I feel it's a clumsy choice. They should have modified an existing model from in-house. Or done a bit more work on the ZEO prototype. Using a Lotus glider for an EV sends out completely the wrong message for a company the size of Chrysler.

They might just as well have put out a press release along the lines of:- "All we can manage is a sub-Tesla-Roadster-clone" and ergo "we admit that little start-up Tesla is the company to beat".

"P.S. We're out of ideas."

Careless admission guys. And if you are going to walk straight into encouraging comparisons then it's a pity you couldn't even strip the car down to beat the Roadster's performance and range stats.
 
#37
malcolm said:
There have been various claims in some articles that this is just a mule and that Chrysler will (presumably) use something other than the Europa glider for the production version.

If this is true then I feel it's a clumsy choice. They should have modified an existing model from in-house. Or done a bit more work on the ZEO prototype. Using a Lotus glider for an EV sends out completely the wrong message for a company the size of Chrysler.

They might just as well have put out a press release along the lines of:- "All we can manage is a sub-Tesla-Roadster-clone" and ergo "we admit that little start-up Tesla is the company to beat".

"P.S. We're out of ideas."

Careless admission guys. And if you are going to walk straight into encouraging comparisons then it's a pity you couldn't even strip the car down to beat the Roadster's performance and range stats.
Click to expand...

A whole lot of "ifs," but I agree with the sentiment. I think I'll lobby Chrysler for any BEV it is willing to produce. As a consumer, I welcome any and all models to give me more of a choice in 2010. As of yet, as I see it, I don't have any choice where I can plunk down cash and drive off a lot with a decent vehicle. As for Chrysler, they indicated they have been working on this electric thing for 2 years, since about the time the Volt was introduced in Detroit. If I had to guess, that Europa glider is likely to be the production model. If it's not, it took them a hell of a long time to do a conversion.
 
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