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A very detailed description of a Three-Phase PFC Rectifier can be found here:
http://www.pes.ee.ethz.ch/uploads/tx_ethpublications/Kolar_Essence_PFC_INTELEC_2011.pdf
All this shows, that was Tesla is doing with mono phase charging may be simple and cheap but not efficient.
http://www.pes.ee.ethz.ch/uploads/tx_ethpublications/Kolar_Essence_PFC_INTELEC_2011.pdf
All this shows, that was Tesla is doing with mono phase charging may be simple and cheap but not efficient.
Given the state of electrical supply to homes in Europe, it's clear that A < D*E. If we're talking about a *relatively low power* 3-phase charging solution for home use (so that Europeans can get at least the same rate of home charging which Americans get from a NEMA 14-50). It may not be worth it for them to develop something bigger, as it may be cheaper for them to simply build a fast DC charging network.
I'm thinking hard about this. I'm wondering (a) how cheap Tesla's HPC2.0 is going to be, (b) whether it can be safely installed outside, and (c) whether it's considered legal for municipal (rather than residential) installation. Because what may make sense for visitors is to arrange to get one installed somewhere in downtown rather than home.
I could probably talk the city into it if it was paid for *and* it met code... heck it would probably be classed as a charitable contribution.Makes more sense than installing J1772 charging stations which are slower than a NEMA 14-50.
Any idea how many 3-phase connections there are in Europe?
Also, a 3-phase charger is not expensive at all, most of the time it is even cheaper then a 1-phase charger with the same capacity.
"Simply" build a DC network? No way, that is not going to happen in a short period of time. DC chargers will never be able to cover ALL of Europe, while 3-phase is already doing that.
tomsax
Member
I'm thinking hard about this. I'm wondering (a) how cheap Tesla's HPC2.0 is going to be, (b) whether it can be safely installed outside, and (c) whether it's considered legal for municipal (rather than residential) installation. Because what may make sense for visitors is to arrange to get one installed somewhere in downtown rather than home.
Makes more sense than installing J1772 charging stations which are slower than a NEMA 14-50.
Instead of installing a Tesla HPC 2.0 that only Model S owners can use, it makes much more sense to install 70A or higher J1772 stations for public charging. The J1772 standard allows for charging at up to 240V and 80A, more than the current HPC allows. Most stations being installed now are limited to 30A because the federal grants that are funding them impose that limit. It's too bad those federal grants are flooding the landscape with puny 30A charging stations and thus slowing the deployment of full-speed Level 2 units.
Clipper Creek offers the CS-100, a J1772 station that supports 75A charging which is basically the same box that Tesla sells as an HPC but with a J1772 connector. Siemens has announced the VersaCharge that supports 70A charging, including optional support for metering, with availability late this year and early next year. Both are rated for outdoor use. Eaton has announced they will support 70+ amp charging and a wide variety of billing models.
For more options as they become available, check out Plug In America's EVSE list sorted by maximum amperage.
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Eaton does not yet produce this 70 amp unit. From my calls today "We do not intend to produce this product until there are sufficient vehicles on the road that can utilize this potential." They have no time line on when that might be. "You can try checking back in six months."
The 10kW charger is for AC only.
Quickcharging (90kW) is done with DC and in that process the internal car charger is by-passed so does not pose a limit to the charging current.
If you don't take the second AC charger (10kW) you'll not be limited with DC charging.
Hi Rob,
As I understand it DC fast charging bypasses the on-board charger. For AC charging you would be limited to the the capacity of the on-board charger.
Larry
tomsax
Member
The DC Quick Charger, aka the Supercharger, goes directly to the battery pack and doesn't use the on-board charger, so you get the same charging speed whether you have the 10 kW or 20 kW charger on-board.
However, if you end up doing any traveling where there aren't any DC Quick Chargers but there are full Level 2 charging stations, then having the 20 kW charger on board will make a difference. It doesn't matter for overnight charging, the 10 kW charger will do that nicely, but it does matter if you need to stop mid-trip and wait to get enough charge to finish your drive.
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rolosrevenge
Dr. EVS
I honestly think Tesla is doing it exactly the right way. They've got the best connector out there but their communication protocol is the same that J1772 uses. That means even the J1772 DC charger can be used with a mere plug adapter, like their J1772 AC adapter. If Tesla has a superior connector while using the standard protocols, then it just becomes a question of who sells more EVs in the next 5 years. If Tesla becomes the major EV player, others will want to copy them, especially if more Tesla 20 kW chargers start going up. The big thing really is that all of the little commuter EVs need to charge around town with the 6.6 kW J1772's to be practical. A Model S will almost never need that sort of topping off during the day, but just in case, you've got a slick little adapter that comes with the car.
Remember that the vast majority of vehicles around the globe will NOT use the Tesla proprietary connector. I suspect that Tesla owners will end up carrying lots of adapters (just like the Roadster) while other manufacturers vehicles can simply plug in.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Wouldn't that be just one adapter? Hardly a burden. As MPT said in the last Transportation Evolved, I'd rather use a better plug most of the time when I plug in at home and use an adapter on occasion.
Type 1 ("J1772"), Type 2 ("mennekes"), CHAdeMO, and all the new DC connectors will require adapters. In the wild you will find a tiny percentage of Charging Stations with Native Tesla connectors (just like today).
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
So how can other manufacturer's vehicles "simply plug in" when you've just listed 4 different types of connecters? No matter what Tesla owners will have to carry only one more adapter than anyone else, while having a sleeker plug to use 99% of the time.
Alternatively, if Tesla were to freely share its plug specs, then it could become the industry standard. It wouldn't be the first time that a design-by-committee was overtaken by a superior design developed by someone with commercial skin in the game.
Also, given the Tesla's range, the vast majority of charging will either be at home (no need for "grazing" while shopping) or at SC sites (as relatively few charging stations are being located to support inter-city travel).
I agree that Tesla drivers will be investing in some connectors. I disagree with your assertion, Kevin, that everyone else will not. There is no single standard around the globe, or even within a country. SAE? CHAdeMO? Mennekes? Unless the car has multiple plug points, every car will need some adapters to use the full range of available plugs. (Right, what @JRP just said.)
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No, you are wrong... Type 2 ("mennekes") supports 43kW AC and 70kW DC with the same physical connector (and 140kW DC with the addition of 2 pins);
Vehicle inlets and connectors type 2 for AC and DC charging
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By supporting two connectors today (J1772 and CHAdeMO) the car could have used existing infrastructure with no adapters.
However, selecting the Type 2 ("mennekes") connector from the beginning would have supported a global connector standard that is widely deployed... no need for a proprietary connector at all.
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