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Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.

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  1. J

    Tesla Cybrtrk

    Rational human beings do not buy cars on looks. Looks might be one of the many variables to consider but only that. Buying on looks is like starving to death because you only eat candy. You are acting like a spoiled child, grow up. The Cybertruck is the best value Tesla by far, it's...
  2. J

    What is an exoskeleton?

    In the event what Musk said would suggest there is no frame, the panels are the frame, most of the press seems to think otherwise. An exoskeleton is an external skeleton and ideally there is no internal one, although some animals have both. Musk made it clear that the skin is load bearing and...
  3. J

    Cybertruck is NOT aerodynamically efficient - why the shape?

    In product design there are always many compromises and lots of things to consider.. Tesla had to adapt to the limitations of the manufacturing process for these load bearing "panels". Structural integrity is also a big deal especially vs costs. Then they had to maximize footprint utilization...
  4. J

    Cybertruck is NOT aerodynamically efficient - why the shape?

    An airfoil has something like a 0.045Cd, an airfoil is like a plane wing. Aero is more about how you release the air than how you hit it. The very long slope and bed cover do help and you can see that it starts just above the driver's head, that's not random. With this vehicle, the air goes...
  5. J

    Walk me through the design decision for the cybertruck

    Motortrend mentions 57 inch wide, no idea how accurate that is. Anyway, not sure why everybody cares so much about truck buyers. It's a car, if enough car buyers decide to purchase it, Tesla has done a good job. The different types of truck buyers will make their own decisions. Also remains to...
  6. J

    Walk me through the design decision for the cybertruck

    It's about cost and it's not that unconventional, just the roof line is strange. They save a lot in manufacturing and materials. Other factors to consider are aero, structural integrity, weight, reliability. Compare it with any other Tesla, it's better value by a lot. Vs MY, it has 6 seats, the...
  7. J

    OMG that truck is fugly!

    The pics do not paint an accurate picture of its size. Folks that hater it should check out test rides videos, see how it looks from ground level and with people next to it. Cool factor wise, it beats the Roadster 2020. It's still somewhat strange but it's imposing and bada$$.
  8. J

    Tesla Cybrtrk

    Took some notes and converted to cm, might have rounded some of the numbers but check the presentation if needed. 190cm in height 588.5 cm length 202.7 cm width Assuming this would be without mirrors but mirrors will be added in some jurisdictions.
  9. J

    This truck design had better be a joke....

    They go unibody and no paint, they focus on aero, that's what enables the price. Cost is what has influenced the design the most.
  10. J

    Made a couple small changes to the Cybertruck. Thoughts?

    You ruin aero this way, maybe just round the top a little but that kills the way they want to manufacture this and increases costs. If you look at test rides videos you might realize that changes are not necessary. MY needed a taller roofline in the rear but this one is OK as is.
  11. J

    This truck design had better be a joke....

    It's by far the best value Tesla, MY is garbage compared to this. 6 seats and a 2 x 1.45m bed, 250+ miles of range for 40k. The vehicle is 5.8 in length, 1.9m in height, the pics are deceiving, it's an imposing vehicle. It's also likely the safest Tesla so far, just because of its size. 9mm...
  12. J

    Consumer Reports on Model 3 and Prius Prime

    Consumer Reports is gossip and they hate Tesla. Go watch their Youtube channel, those are not informed, educated and civilized individuals.
  13. J

    Model Y Aims to Be Tesla's Real Mass Market Hit

    Aside from all the talk about what it is, the biggest problem with Model Y is range and range always goes together with charging rates. For a car that hits real volumes in 2021, offering 230 and 300 miles is far too little. The base model might be one of the shortest range vehicles on the...
  14. J

    An interesting EAP fail.

    Tesla uses machine learning and the entire geometry of the scene to navigate. The fact that it is obvious to you , makes this easy, it would be much harder if it wasn't obvious. It's not so much about time, it's about data and the fleet is already sizable. The basic navigation is not even the...
  15. J

    Carwash won't wash Model 3s

    Maybe someone was having some fun, using the phone app to mess with the car wash employees.
  16. J

    Do you think a driver of the Model 3 or other Tesla could of survive this?

    Wow that was violent, the pickup was beyond speeding and obliterated the Nissan, it just went through it. Likely the speed was too high for survival, even if the cabin would not collapse, the change in acceleration was too much. You can build a car that survives but humans can't survive very...
  17. J

    Autopilot malfunction

    It kinda makes sense for the AI to follow that trajectory, you can't really tell what ques it uses to make its decisions but it clearly needs more time to handle such rare situations and poor road design. This is by no means a malfunction, it's a very atypical situation and rather difficult to...
  18. J

    San Jose to Los Angeles in a Tunnel?

    This system is not aimed at such long distances, in this case the hyperloop is far more appropriate given the much higher speeds. Slightly different solution, 3 to 4.5 times higher speed but the key to it is the same, cost of the tunnel. Work to reduce tunnel costs, maximize speed to increase...
  19. J

    Bloomberg 2019 EV Outlook

    With EVs you have to consider what constrains sales, what limits the market and what EV makers can do about it. Then consider the competition, ICE and how that gores. You also have to consider disruptions. The most significant limiting factor for EVs right now is awareness. Very few people...
  20. J

    Drop 40k on a Tesla or invest 40k in Tesla stock

    It's not really an or. An investment and a purchase are 2 different things. It's not really 40k either, it's a matter of cost of capital. You can trade on margins or go with options, you can do lease/loan with a car. Is the car a necessity, what's the cost of ownership, including the cost of...
  21. J

    Tesla Robotaxi

    Tesla sad 1 million miles pack next year so w/e car must be then too, if they have the OK for driverless vehicles. Should be close to M3/MY but they need a much more comfortable interior. 1 million miles pack is a pointless metric, what matters is cost per cycle as that plus electricity costs...
  22. J

    A vehicle that can regenerate?

    Solar is very possible, it's about creating solar body panels that are good enough- cost, weight, looks. Ideally the body panels would actually be cheaper than normal ones, weight can make a big difference. Doesn't have to provide all the energy required for daily use but even that is not...
  23. J

    Leaked email: Tesla Model 3 sales in Q2-19 might beat Q4-18

    There is no battery cell shortage, the 24GWh yearly pace mentioned in April is enough for some 85k Model 3 per quarter, depending on mix and Panasonic made it very clear that starting with June, output and yield will improve significantly. Tax credit will have very little impact on Q3, the...
  24. J

    What I want my autonomous car to really do well...

    The best L2 is L5. you can't have a 5y old that is an ace on the highway and terrible in the city. The fleet is growing, the data volumes with it, progress will accelerate. NoA is cautious to avoid costly mistakes. As they increase accuracy ,they can be a bit more aggressive. It's a new feature...
  25. J

    Tesla Production & Profitability

    What verygreen is saying is not factually accurate in a lot of places. M3 production was limited by cells in Q1 but is not in Q2. Model 3 still had reservations that cover most of Q2 and there is no inventory buildup, that claim is complete nonsense. At the end of Q1 there was some high end...
  26. J

    Too much focus on FSD?

    Cars are a luxury item, the 1.3 billion people in OECD nations travel by car about as much as the other 6 billion. Car as a service can offer 10 times better value than ownership and can easily quadruple the number of miles traveled by car globally. It's a deal you can;t refuse and it greatly...
  27. J

    When to order a new Model X

    Faster charging would make sense and maybe a larger pack (2170 cells unlikely) , new interior too but they just did this update and had to do substantial changes to the production line. Kinda doubt they stop production again anytime soon for major updates. Q1 production for S&X was 14k units and...
  28. J

    Bankrupt Tesla = Bricked Tesla?

    You have to learn to read articles about Tesla, none of them is accurate and lots (if not most) are ridiculous. For example Jalopnik yesterday " Elon Musk Says Tesla Needs Financial Micromanagement or It Will Go Broke" 'Musk stated that if the company’s Q1 losses of $700 million were to extend...
  29. J

    Elon's biggest strengths and weaknesses

    Strength product design. Weakness- terrible manager, can't plan anything, does not understand the customer and the value of money, lack of ethics, emotional, likes to play the victim, stubborn and gets stuck on irrational decisions, does not try to learn, to improve. Everything Tesla has been...
  30. J

    NIssan Leaf is a Better Car Than the Tesla Model 3?

    @ MoHazee4 The Leaf Plus (62kWh) is 36.55k or about, it costs more than the base Model 3 while being a size class bellow and a much lesser car in every area, perf, safety , comfort. The battery pack and lack of OTA alone will lead to much higher depreciation than M3. M3 is more efficient and...
  31. J

    Buy now or wait?

    Tax credit gets a cut at end of quarter and they might offset that in Q3 to some extent but NOT for the 35k$ model. They are heading towards a demand disaster in the second half , the delayed base model, the delayed international orders, the price changes have killed reservations and only less...
  32. J

    VW ID.3

    @ Eno Deb You are clearly not informed and not paying attention or trying the bend the truth to serve some kind of purpose. Estimating EPA range from WLTP is rather easy and my numbers are good. VW hasn't even defined their strategy for autonomy, they are more than 6 years behind Tesla while...
  33. J

    VW ID.3

    So EPA range for the 3 pack sizes would be about 180 miles for 45kWh , 230 miles for 58kWh and 300 miles for 77kWh. They have OTA but only partial not entire vehicle, could be just infotainment. Level 3 ADAS at some point in the future (unclear about price) and they are very skeptical about...
  34. J

    Tesla Computer - Chinese Import - Tariffs

    Unclear if that's actually HW3 for M3 but if it is, the 25% tariff should be tens of dollars per unit, not news worthy.
  35. J

    Battery size strategy: go bigger, or not?

    It's less about range and more about charging rates. Charging rates scale with battery size so if they are gonna quadruple charging rates in the long term for Model 3 for example, to satisfy 90% of the public and get EV penetration to practically 100% before 2030, a pack 2x the size would help...
  36. J

    A little disheartened by the competition

    His late assist is just a lane departure warning, if the car leaves the lane, it flashes an icon.
  37. J

    How will Tesla make their next-gen sedan even cheaper?

    First of all, not from cell prices being lower, all of that needs to go into larger packs to improve charging rates as much as possible. For as long as charging rates limit the addressable market, packs must increase in size. If they get stuck at 200+ miles of range, they lose to the...
  38. J

    Q1 2019 Production numbers - concern?

    Model 3 production is up over q4 but just a little, remains to be seen if that's because of the of shifts to and from EU and China as well as the Standard Range Plus ramp, or they are just ramping slowly at this point. Model X should be a bit weak but relatively OK. Model S should be very weak...
  39. J

    Gas vs Tesla

    The cheapest performance is 59.5k not 51k and if Tesla doesn't offer reasonable financing or leasing, don't take that. Lease and financing are 2 very different things. With financing you pay for the entire value of the car while with a lease, you pay for the value the car loses in those number...
  40. J

    Do Model Y prices rise on Monday as well?

    The price increase is likely just for LR and it is because prices were too close to M3. The Perf version was just 500$ more than M3 but they could have thought about it before launch, like normal people do. Nobody will have any strength left to stand by their side if they don't stop with the...
  41. J

    What happened to MR?

    Was to be expected since they were wasting money by using the long range pack, this improves margins slightly.
  42. J

    Why Model S/X will not see 2170 cells any time soon.

    I'll remind you once again that S&X are on 2 shifts not 3, so they can produce 50% more with 3 shifts, aside from paint and a few other areas. But since not everything is on 24/7, they are losing money by not producing more. @ henderrj Panasonic is not Tesla , they don't screw up, they will...
  43. J

    Tesla’s next major milestone: no driver input required on the highway

    lol ok you went too far and i'll have to add you to my ignore list. I will however clarify a few things for other readers. The 200k $ cost for the Google car are estimates from industry analysts for the entire car, not a single LIDAR sensor. Second point, to simplify the conversation. How does...
  44. J

    Tesla’s next major milestone: no driver input required on the highway

    I think you need to take a huge step back and try to learn more while remaining neutral. LIDAR gives you distance and reflectivity and you have a somewhat vague 3D map.You know that something 3D is there and get a vague shape. All the tough things are done by the camera even if you have LIDAR...
  45. J

    The Tesla FUDge Factory is Now Open

    @ lkstaack Wasn't trying to imply that there is a conspiracy just that they are failing to do their job. No matter the constraints, they can't inform their readers if they don't make an effort to get informed.They need to figure out EVs, they need to figure out Tesla and then they need to...
  46. J

    Why Model S/X will not see 2170 cells any time soon.

    @ henderrj Please stop reading fake news websites, it's supper annoying to have to provide a source for such basic facts. 'According to the agreement, Tesla will prepare, provide and manage the land, buildings and utilities. Panasonic will manufacture and supply cylindrical lithium-ion cells...
  47. J

    Why Model S/X will not see 2170 cells any time soon.

    The new cells are at GF1 and Panasonic handles cell production and the cost of the machines, Tesla handles the building and an empty shell is not that much. For 18650 it's all Panasonic and they make those in Japan. Demand for 2170 cells is well behind schedule as Tesla messed up the M3...
  48. J

    Tesla’s next major milestone: no driver input required on the highway

    You see in 3D with your eyes so yes cameras can do it. We use stereo vision but you can also use structure from motion as well as learn the size of things to derive distance. LIDAR is low resolution (even the ones they call high resolution) , is very costly and has issues with certain weather...
  49. J

    Why Model S/X will not see 2170 cells any time soon.

    It's likely that the production processes are very different with the new chemistry so the change in chemistry would require investments. Maybe Tesla has a contact to take the production for X years and they are waiting for it to expire before they transition to the new cells that are gonna have...
  50. J

    Tesla’s next major milestone: no driver input required on the highway

    As I see it, the hard part is the perception software. Extracting as much info as possible from the data packets that come from the sensors. A human looks at a scene and quickly understands it, plus we are trained to spot potential dangers. The car identifies very few things and everything else...

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