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I wouldn't necessarily trust the UI if you don't feel a change in your "butt dyno." Might be interesting for someone to download an iPhone app to measure acceleration runs and see if it shows evidence of gradual power fall-off and/or step-function limiting. I have a TraqMate, but some of the...

Do I read you correctly that you see/feel a power drop simply from driving aggressively in the 100 mph range? And that a single squirt to ~120mph triggers a limit? If true, this is really disappointing.

I read with interest Cottonwood's post from November 2012: Model S vs Roadster on the Track I am curious if anyone else has done fast laps in the Model S and has newer/other data to report. Both in terms of general track ability and power-reduced/thermal protect behavior.

Awesome as proof of concept, and "free" is a nice price for fuel. On the other hand, in three days you made six stops totaling 4.5 hours (not including non-charging "overhead" time of maybe another 30-45 mins) versus an ICE car where you would have made three stops and could have refueled fully...

None of these things pencil out as proof-of-convents (and aren't intended to), but this seems particularly dumb. I know that San Jose and Oakland airport have incentives (mandates?) for CNG cabs-- and virtually all cabs picking up form those airports are CNG. For fleet applications, I think...

Not exactly. Launch control requies you to press the button to turn off stability control, but it would be more accurate to think of launch control using stability control in "automatic mode" and not "off." The whole point is that it modulates the throttle and clutch to provide optimal 0-60...

Although I agree with the conclusion about where the MSP has the best chances, I disagree abut why. The new M5' with its advanced turbo chargers and fancy dual cutch gear box, has very very flat TQ over a VERY broad range of engine and wheel speeds (accounting for gear box) and the penalty to...

Well, if you are talking about spending $$$ to improve performance, nothing beats turbo charged cars like the M5. Power is basically software-defined. Most turbo cars can be tuned to add 10% more power with software only. When performance parts become available, I expect at least 20% gains...

1. Novelty. The new new thing is always cool. Being the first kid to have one is cooler. 2. Smooth delivery of significant power from a standing start without breaking a sweat. 3. Quiet. Always composed and quiet. (Although road/wind/tire noise dominates when cruising beyond 60MPH, so at...

Everyone has to eat. My dinner bet stands. In practice, I think "reaction time" will be as big a factor, and it is hard to measure/compare that. If we use logger data to "start" when each car begins to accelerate, that might not be fair to the MSP (as it would make the shift time "free" to...

My mistake. I knew they used those on Roadster, but I wrongly assumed they did a bespoke cell/pack for the MSP. You have convinced me that performance potential of MSP falls more with SOC than an R/C car. And i get that that is by design and for real-world reasons. My point still stands that...

The OP and early commenters framed the central Q as: which is faster around the track? I have not tried to redefine that question. I have played all with various excuses/explanations, but have not tried to dodge the central question. I'm the one providing real world data. I...

Dude, those are laptop/flashlight batteries and charts have auto-fit origins. Use a 0,0 origin and they will be flatter-- especially cells engineered to be high discharge cells (like an R/C pack and presumably the new Tesla batteries). Laws of physics/chemistry of dictate that they not...

I actually am an R/C enthusiast and do know how batteries work. With LiPos, even under heavy load, the voltage during discharge is very flat (voltage versus SOC). Obviously, voltage drops more with more load, but at heavy loads (I am looking at 25C curves) this drop is approximately constant...

Really? Really? Again with the apologist/fanboy stuff. Trailering a track car/racecar to the track is not unusual, but trailering a stock sedan to the track is laughable. I have never seen it. Have you? What would be the point? I've seen stock show/shine Ferraris roll out of trailers, but...

So I'd need to trailer my Model S to the track to ensure enough SOC to drive normally for more than one session (versus normal four or five sessions)? I think EV owners know they might need to top-off before driving home from track (depending on distance and charging facilities (Supercharger...

The confusing part about the limp mode thing is that it is so confusing. The car's UI should convey enough information so the driver knows what action/condition caused the limp mode. And Tesla the company should proactively (e.g., in the manual and website) describe the designed behavior under...

Just kidding, obviously. But, in all seriousness, a long, sustained straight-line burnout on sticky tires would be more impressive than a "smokey drift" purely from perspective of raw power. With the big performance tires, it takes a LOT of power to keep them from hooking up once you get to...

That's not a burnout. This is a burnout:

You just floor it and it kicks down to lowest gear not too close to redline. It is smart. It takes a lot less than 0.4 seconds to shift. Once again, we need to test to be sure, but my money on the M5 for this test. I'll bet dinner on it if anyone is willing to play. As for gearing, I...

CapO: If you are right, that would be pretty dumb mistake from a company that is pretty smart/good/careful. Actually it would be a dumb design, a dumb implementation of algorithm and a dumb/unhelpful UI presentation. Seems unlikely--- but I agree that what you say is internally consistent...

Could be premature range extension, but then you'd have to assume that the Laguna 1:51 car had this stuff disabled, right? Or maybe it was topped off before the fast lap. If so, a requirement to have SOC very high to avoid limp mode in one or two laps essentially says you can't...

In addition, the MSP doesn't (per Cottonwood's testing) seem to be able to sustain its power output for long under full load / track day circumstances. It is unclear why, but thermal limits is an obvious suspect. I actually think that some of MSPs advantages (low CG, flat TQ, instant response)...

If you have ever modified a car to make it go faster, get the Perf. If, when passing cars on the freeway, you sometimes push pedal to the floor, get the Perf. Speed/perf is relative and your perception adjusts quickly--- in a month it won't seem so fast. If you enjoy speed, get the Perf...

Jason S: I suspect the M5 will be faster than the MSP at all speeds between autocross speeds and 150mph also. MSP will win short stop light racing (which I personally never do) but will likely lag the M5 in highway "passing power" (which I personally do daily).

@stopcrazypp: Really interesting analysis, but I think a potential flaw is that comparing 0-30 times is largely irrelevant on the track because you never go slower than say 20MPH on the tightest turn. You're never at zero RPM and you never need to drop the clutch and worry about hooking up for...

The 1:50 time for Roadster in 2011 and the 1:51.8 time for Model S in 2012 were both Time Trial laps (you get the track to yourself-- no traffic). At Laguna with M5 a couple of weeks ago, there was always some traffic, but it was open passing and people were trying to not hold each other up...

Todd: perhaps, but Cottonwood reports that his MSP entered reduced power mode before his Roadster with same track/day/driver, making the Roadster faster than MSP in his test. Both could be true: one-off 0-100 runs are one thing, but sustained full load asks a heavier toll on all systems...

I am confused how your results square with the Model S times (faster than Roadsters) at Laguna at Refuel 2012. I am wondering if the engineers there relaxed the safety envelope of the Refuel cars to test the limits, but ship customer cars with more conservative limits. If true, the real world...

FYI, I just looked at my TraqMate data and see that my top speed on fast laps in the M5 was 124 mph, so below the Model S limiter which is 130 mph I think. I think the Roadster is limited to 125 mph, so again that should not be a factor. Just to be clear, my car is 100.0% bone stock, fresh...

Got it. That makes sense. As you said, real production results could go skew either way. In any case, there appeared to be at least a couple hundred pounds of standard equipment/trim "not present" in the car. As an aside, I tracked down Sean and asked him for clarification-- which I think...

I was at Refuel in my Chevy Volt (where I did not get a clean lap and was excluded from the time trial, but was doing 2:10-ish in traffic). On a different day, I was at Laguna in my 2013 BMW M5 (F10). I ran a 1:47, which is faster (by wide margin) than any of the Teslas at the prior Refuel...

I was at Refuel 2012 in my Volt (but was not allowed to do a Time Trial lap for religious reasons-- apparently lugging around an ICE that is not running is an unfair advantage), at least one of the MSPs (Black one I think) was stripped like a race car (had a James Bond sticker on it). Also had...

I actually have all that data on the M5 from Laguna Seca, where I ran 1:47 last Wed (versus a 1:51 best by MSP at the Refuel event, presumably with much better drivers than I am). Different day, but weather is not going to make a 4 second difference. I was proposing straight line data to take...

Makes sense. If I have a "taker," I will work it out with that person. I don't think the protocol needs to be that complicated: A couple of runs each of: 1. 0-100MPH 2. Rolling (maybe 20mph) to 100MPH 3. Passing power (maybe 60-130MPH-- that is max speed for MSP, right?) These would not...

I am curious to gather data on acceleration over various speed ranges. I have a GPS/accelerometer data logger (TraqMate) that can help put to rest some of the questions about the MSP's performance versus a comparable ICE car. Such as: 1. How much of an advantage is there in "full TQ at...

With a pro driver (i assume) which, ahem, I am NOT.

Flash results: 1:47 best lap so far after two sessions. I have video and telemetry. Anyone know MSP times? I am running with traction/stability in track "MDM" mode and it is kicking in under wot, but I am chicken to turn off.

I have my F10 M5 now. Anyone in Bay Area with an MSP? I will be at Laguna Seca on Wed if anyone wants to show up (Hooked on Driving Event). Still looking forward to safe scientific data collection / comparo.

Just bringing back to M5 for a second, I am including the F10 M5 TQ curve (compared to prior M5 model (the E60)). You'll see that it produces a flat 680nm from 1500 to 5700 RPM. I actually think that most modern high-end turbo cars have basically flat TQ curves. Best this is engine torque in...

I agree with the takeaway: the M5 has gotten so fat and soft that it is no longer credible to say that it is fully "two cars in one" (sports car and luxury sedan). The M3 has taken on that challenge. I think it is more fair to now call the M5 the ultimate "Sporty Luxury Sedan."...

My car arrived at port yesterday. Should be ready for pickup in a week or so. I broke it in on the Nurburging in Germany (photo below), so by the time I get it, it will have had it's break-in service. I'm in SF Bay Area. I am also going to an airfield event in NorCal on November 10 in case...

One observation: I think a very high percentage of factors that people are using in their assessment of "best" are actually related to "novelty" and not "goodness." As a thought experiment, assume that the current Model S was the third generation Model S. Compare it to the competition without...

0-25 MPH, you'd smoke him. Then he would reel you in.

Right. Exactly. I have only done a couple of times and always on a flat surface. It is possible that the computer holds the brakes as in park assist, but it is in neutral (or clutch-in) and you don't need to have foot on brake (in fact I think this would cancel the sequence). This is not...

With launch control, the brake lights would not have been on immediately prior to launch. - - - Updated - - - That was the case in the E60. The F10 has full launch control (apparently-- I didn't try it). Also, you don't hit the rev limiter pre-launch, it holds at an adjustable RPM...

Couple of notes: 1. Some are claiming that this was a 6 speed car (not dual clutch) and that launch control was not used. If true, then the test isn't exactly fair. 2. The launch control settings can be preset into one of two "M" buttons, so launch control is a single click operation (and a...

Hey, that was my idea! ;-) I actually would not enforce this right away, but would just put people "on notice" that that will be the rule as soon as utilization/crowding becomes an issue.

To be clear it's about ONE extra liter per 3000 miles, and my dealer gave me three free liters on delivery. Other than oil changes every 10K (?) miles, "maintenance" is not expensive, but I did have a few very expensive non-warranty repairs (SMG and VANOS) on my E60. If you drive any high...

I wonder if they will block or limit Supercharging at your "local" station. If you lived within 20 miles of one, you would have free gas for life and might crowd out true long-range travelers. If I were Tesla, I would put people on notice that they might limit local charging if...