Search results

Love it! I've been in the doubter camp of a primary battery swap ever since the idea was floated, but I have to say this is the first conceptualization of it that seems to make any real sense to me beyond mere symbolism - it's the equivalent of AAA for EVs. Show me the techiest Go Go Gadget...

Actually I think we're the children, here in these forums hyperventilating with anticipation.

You want a conspiracy theory? - there's a high-density range-extending battery already in the car's architecture that maybe needs to be changed out after 1000 or 5000 miles or so after the recharging degrades- I know I'll get a thousand replies as to why this is not possible, and I don't know...

Agreed, there's definitely more to it than the conventional wisdom so far. There has been a rush to consensus that battery swapping refers to the main battery because of some perceived smoking gun quote- I just don't see it, not because it wouldn't be possible for Tesla to demonstrate some...

Just to propose a balance between waitlist vs. immediate gratification, it appears Tesla doesn't want to become just another carmaker with dealerships that have massive lots full of unsold cars, and instead give buyers the opportunity to custom-order their car in exchange for an acceptable wait...

Um, I think ckessel was saying exactly that the short-term data doesn't matter, good or bad, which is taking a bit of breath....I think your beef is with the previous post.

+1 And if not why not?

No, actually I heard an Audi or something. Did they have a McLaren F1 also? Aiming high... I guess the takeaway is that Tesla has the serious attention of some major carmakers, and the ones that it doesn't are toast.

Certainly, and I remember someone mentioning that even Tesla at one point had some topline German car in their design studio to compare - don't think they were running electrical diagnostics though.

Oh man that's funny, not least because as you tell it the guy was so open as to what he was doing. I imagine Tesla has already assumed this though - two cars to each major car manufacturer, one to do a teardown and one to analyze the performance. What's that, maybe fifty cars in extra sales -...

Ting Louie, Personally I agree with JohnQ that most of the things you list are bells and whistles of lesser importance to me, but everyone has a different opinion and certainly if you want those features you'd be better off with other luxury car brands. I do find it curious, however that on...

Actually, I think your photo series confirms my point that they started out with a lot of available area for venting between the nose, the underside and the two side intakes, and in the end covered up the majority of the nosecone. Yes, the heat exchangers still need some airflow, but for the...

Using the same comparative logic, 55 seems too high, as it is only 5 kWh less than the Model S 60 that already gets 208 EPA, especially if as jdevo suggests the cell efficiency increases, thereby creating compounding gains on battery weight through fewer cells per equal kWh rating. 50kWh sounds...

Although I think overall Tesla's done a fantastic job with the design, the nose is the weakest part, where they capitulated to convention. My understanding is that an electric car needs some intake, but comparatively little to an aspirating ICE engine. I don't know what the Alpha looked like...

My pocketbook will keep me waiting for Gen III, but I'm jealous of all you Roadster and Model S owners who, over the next 3 years as the supercharger networks expand will be taking roadtrips all across the North American and European continents - the conversion won't happen overnight per se, but...

To take a somewhat longer view on the topic of swapping, I can easily see a near future where primary battery swapping becomes a positive attribute, where it begins to merge with the concept of battery upgrade. Basically we may expect to see batteries improve in performance at an...

I see your point, although functionality-wise there really isn't much difference, just a bit longer in the butt. I actually have a SAAB 900 now, and that and the BMW 3GT are as you suggest slightly smaller versions of the Model S - basically a hatchback-sedan (I'm sure there's car-lingo for the...

Don't know if the designer had a premonition, but I think the conventional wisdom is that the first iteration will be a sedan, so the second being an SUV or crossover could look something like this - of course I'd be fine if both the 2WD and 4WD looked like that, but I'd still wait for the 4WD.

I realize I should have posted actual images, or at least one from the article. Btw, the Photoshop/doctoring design work is apparently by Theophilus Chin. Sweet!

Who wants to drive potentially all the way across town to the Tesla service center from where they live in their apartment to simply swap out a battery - that's not a solution. Frankly, I can't fathom a full battery swap in any scenario other than tokenism at this point - I vote for head fake...

Timely. Though Tesla suggested they might be more original with the Gen III styling, I'd be very happy with something like this: Could the Next Tesla Look Like This? Along the lines of an Audi A3. Given how much Tesla has talked about the low drag coefficient of the Model S, I don't know if...

Right, even making that argument is for the shorts to admit that Tesla will be more successful than what they are now arguing. But they'll eventually get to this line of trashing in their 5-step program of recovery as the new "line in the sand" marker of success. The phaseout of their tax...

I think I may be in the minority here as I'm not a real fan of sedans, but I'll be holding out for the SUV version of the Gen III, for which my current standard visually is the Subaru Crosstrek: I was about to buy one, but got sucked into the world of Tesla just before I pulled the trigger...

Yes, I realize I was also assuming international sales which shouldn't count. Nevertheless, whatever is left of Tesla's credits at that point will go quickly, within the first half of the year (although this won't be all bad as it will boost help boost sales at the debut with everyone trying to...

A point I made upstream, but if I understand the EV tax credit program correctly, those credits will be phasing out for Tesla buyers right around when the Gen III debuts (@200,000 units per manufacturer). If so, the pre or post-tax credit pricing is moot because there will be no post-EV credit...

Sounded rather snarky on the part of the reporter, but I imagine Elon would have responded that people don't want all of those other EVs because they are complete compromises, not because they are too expensive. One admitted headwind Tesla will be facing when Gen III comes out is that if Models...

Yes, thanks - that gives slightly higher cell totals of 4375 and 3719 for the 51kWh pack - I corrected the table in my first post.

I thought for sure an estimate of the Gen III battery pack had been done by someone, but not finding any through a search, I went ahead with my own back-of-envelope calculations based on the conversations of this thread. Please troubleshoot and/or improve upon these numbers as my...

Right, and why Musk is confident GenIII will meet their cost projections, because the "hard" part of battery cost optimization has already been achieved, or clearly will be shortly with expected improvements and iterations. I guess one shouldn't be surprised as they've been doing battery and...

Interesting. Tesla may have already passed that critical threshold of battery cost to ICE comparison and hardly anyone is aware because its buried in the cost of a luxury sedan that the company is just beginning to optimize in terms of assembly line efficiencies, supply chains, etc. And to...

Yeah, it's not as if there aren't smart people working on EVs at many of the other car companies, but they don't have the freedom of a blank sheet like Tesla. Take the upcoming BMW i3 - a lot of hype and expectation - and they've certainly put a lot of thought and effort into it - but money and...

I'd like to add my appreciation to the pile to CapOp, and by extension StopCrazy for their assiduous research on this topic. I've learned an enormous amount, although it's taxing my memory of college physics. It's an interesting contrast to the vapid Barron's article just the other day, that...

Not to get conspiratorial about it, but it strikes me that poorly researched articles like these aren't interested in debating the long-term fundamentals of a company, but rather in winning the psychological argument of the day, and maintaining high volatility. And there are plenty of lemmings...

I say who cares about the article. Tesla now has more than enough operating capital and the stock is now beyond being undermined by shorts and articles like this one. The factuals and counterfactuals can be argued ad nauseum, but the truth will only play out over the long term through every...

Great summary of possibilities. I think #3 suffers not only from the size of the cable needed, but the fact that Tesla warrants the batteries - though they may theoretically be able to track your charging habits, I don't think anyone would want them playing Big Brother to make sure you didn't...

Read somewhere that separately german automakers and japanese automakers were trying to come to some agreement for a charging standard for their respective countries and possibly beyond, but whatever they've been discussing they probably now realize it's already obsolete compared to Tesla's...

Yeah, taxi fleet would be ideal - also ZipCars.

Given your post this is a timely article: What Do Toyota And Mercedes See In Tesla? A Bit Of Themselves - Forbes Daimler and Toyota supporting Tesla was likely a way for them to hedge their bets, but now they realize how hard it will be to create their own proprietary systems and networks. I...

Yeah, totally. I think Musk and the rest of Tesla have a lot of pride in what they do and are interested in delivering compelling cars, but as soon as the EV market fully matures and consumers are demanding the full gamut of stylings, options, and various bling that happens once a technology...

This most salient point (often overlooked) was most clearly described in a recent Julian Cox Seeking Alpha piece "On Elon Musk and Tesla Motors: The Art of Modern Warfare with a Noble Cause" -- I've included (with the author's pull-quote) over in the article's thread here: Even Better Seeking...

Not to be nit picky, but I think even then those are publication dates, not filing dates for the patent - the patent filings appear to be +/- 2 years previous to the publication dates as per the US patent office website: patft Page 1 of 1 Basically I'm suggesting that whether or not its a...

I did a quick search and didn't come up with a filing date of February this year for Tesla - maybe I'm missing something. Last I found regarding metal-air battery swap was Dec. 2010, 2.5 years ago: I'm not familiar with patent processes and strategies as to the announcement timeframe of this...

ZestyChicken and rcc, I think the combination of your two posts sums up nicely Tesla's incredible advantage: it's both elegantly simple and incredibly complicated. Elegantly simple - from the manufacturing standpoint once battery prices fall, which are 7% per year, an electric car is...

The time for a roadtrip would also explain why the announcement has been pushed back to June 20. Regardless, I'd like to think the free supercharger network + a faster-than-gas-station recharge unleashes a renaissance of the great american roadtrip - it's diminished over the last 50 years from...

Yeah, a metal-air booster swap in the frunk is the only proposal that seems to make any sense to me - it could be understood as complimentary to supercharging until the next generation of battery technology allows you to recharge in say 5-10 min - maybe another 5-10 years out. If it is simple...

I think it will take more than just Tesla's sales, but at some threshold - say 10% - you'll see gas prices start to fall, though I can't see all the way to $1/gal. Unfortunate as this will prolong the transition to a full EV ecosystem, but at least the most egregious/costly means of extraction...

I say spot on to metal-air announcement, for reasons exhaustively argued already on this forum - patents, speed, the proof-of-concept shown by Phinergy, etc. Assuming this will be the June 20 announcement, my main question then is what it's relationship will be to the superchargers, if any...