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  1. P

    2021 S refresh, just bought, surprised at the low range

    The cars display of range at the little battery icon is useless. On the other hand, the navigator is fairly accurate at predicting remaining battery percent at the end of a trip. So use the navigator to find a good estimate of real range.
  2. P

    Battery Fuse Replacement 2016 Model S 90D

    Used fuses are likely in the same condition as the one you are replacing. Why would you do that?
  3. P

    Battery Fuse Replacement 2016 Model S 90D

    My 2016 90D just gave me this message also. Dealer did it. About $350.
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    Model 3 SR+ LFP Battery Range, Degradation, etc Discussion

    Don't rely on the cars display of range to change in proportion to actual battery degradation and real loss of range. My 2016 Model S has had a large loss (~30%) of actual battery capacity and actual range. Meanwhile, the cars display of range has only diminished 5% to 10%. I would make sure...
  5. P

    Lifetime Average Wh/mi

    2016 S 90D. About 360 wh/mile over 80,000 miles. This is with a moderate driving style. Real full-charge range about 195 miles. Usable battery capacity about 70 kwh. Tesla shop says that everything is normal.
  6. P

    Scheduled charging issues

    Scheduled charging again failed to occur, leaving me with inadequate energy for my day. This is a sporadic occurrence. But even once in a while is too much.
  7. P

    Learnings/Feedback from completed Car Camping Roadrip

    All that and you didn't tell us which car it was? Model 3? Model S"
  8. P

    Kinda disappointed that I have 5.5% degradation after 18k miles

    When you say that the range is 292 miles, is that the actual number of miles that you can get? Or is it the cars display of range? Important difference. For example, my cars display of range was 275 miles. At that time, the real life achievable range was only 200-220 miles. Worse, usable battery...
  9. P

    Owners delivery stories, photos and first impressions

    Good for you. Good idea to get an "inventory" car. I also got my Model S that way. Big discount. Small mileage hit. I do wonder if the sales people abuse the batteries of those cars by keeping the batteries at 100% for all those months. The "90" kwh battery in my 6 month old car had a usable...
  10. P

    Blog Model S is First EPA-Rated EV to Hit 400 Miles of Range

    Well, let's see. My 280 mile Model S delivers 200 miles of real range. So the the 400 mile model should deliver maybe 300 miles.
  11. P

    Kinda disappointed that I have 5.5% degradation after 18k miles

    Sorry Ran. I am just not understanding most of what you are saying. At 6 months of age, my cars battery had 72-73 kwh of usable capacity. And my achievable range was 70-75% of the displayed Rated Range (200-220 miles). So, lots of things wrong and would not be expected. First, not able to get...
  12. P

    Kinda disappointed that I have 5.5% degradation after 18k miles

    In the summer of 2016, the new Model S 90D cars in the showrooms displayed a full charge Rated Range of around 280-285 miles. The usable capacity of these batteries when new was described in several places as 81-82 kwh. 72-73 kwh is certainly not a normal usable capacity for the 90 kwh battery...
  13. P

    Kinda disappointed that I have 5.5% degradation after 18k miles

    Yes, I know that I said the same thing a few times. I felt if appropriate because it appears that many readers read only replies to their own messages. Also, the fallacy of rated range display accurately revealing battery degradation is so widespread, and recurs so frequently that frequent...
  14. P

    Kinda disappointed that I have 5.5% degradation after 18k miles

    Many of us have found unexpectedly large loss of battery capacity (and loss of range). Battery degradation may or may not be revealed by a decrease in the displayed full charge range. If you ask Tesla, they will say nothing is "wrong" with your battery until or unless a fault is displayed...
  15. P

    Kinda disappointed that I have 5.5% degradation after 18k miles

    I suspect that many owners would be surprised and disappointed by the extent of their battery degradation. If they knew what it really was. (My car shows a 5% decrease of rated range while it has 15% degradation) The display of full charge range gives false assurance of minimal degradation...
  16. P

    Kinda disappointed that I have 5.5% degradation after 18k miles

    Using full charge range to estimate battery degradation may result in a mistaken idea that battery degradation is minimal. Actual battery degradation may be much more than suggested by the tiny reductions in the display of full charge range
  17. P

    Kinda disappointed that I have 5.5% degradation after 18k miles

    Change of displayed full charge range may not reveal all of the battery degradation. My early 2016 90D still shows a full charge range just a few miles less than when the car was new. But in fact, the battery has lost 15% of its capacity.
  18. P

    Kinda disappointed that I have 5.5% degradation after 18k miles

    You are assuming that the cars display of range at full charge is an accurate reflection of battery capacity and battery degradation. Battery degradation could be much worse. My cars display of full charge range is about 5% less than when new. But the battery has lost about 15% of its capacity.
  19. P

    Kinda disappointed that I have 5.5% degradation after 18k miles

    Your actual battery degradation could be much worse. The cars display of range may not account for all of the battery degradation. My 2016 Model S at 6 months of age had 15% battery degradation. Yet the display of full charge range was close to that of a brand new car.
  20. P

    Battery Replaced Under Warranty - 30+ miles below rated range

    Good for you, drklain, that you car and battery deliver as advertised. You are lucky. On average, Model S owners get around 70% of the Rated Miles. So, if there are cars like yours delivering 100%, think how poorly some cars must be doing to make the average 70%. TezLab
  21. P

    Battery Replaced Under Warranty - 30+ miles below rated range

    What is it about your experience that confuses you? Sounds like you just discovered the marvel of one pedal driving. Acceleration, coasting, braking (partial braking), all in one pedal. You don't really need to look at the energy graph. If you haven't noticed, regen braking triggers the brake...
  22. P

    Battery Replaced Under Warranty - 30+ miles below rated range

    Just remember that the cars display of range may not decrease in proportion to actual battery degradation. In other words, your battery may have degraded much more than suggested by the small decrease in range from 240 to 230.
  23. P

    Battery Replaced Under Warranty - 30+ miles below rated range

    Wow. Stories like this are piling up. Terrible.
  24. P

    Battery Replaced Under Warranty - 30+ miles below rated range

    A number of disappointments on this. First, the Rated Range was never a very realistic value. I was told that it was readily achievable by the Tesla Sales Rep. Shame on me for believing that. Second, the battery degradation is much more than expected (mine had lost about 15% at 6 mos). Third...
  25. P

    Battery Replaced Under Warranty - 30+ miles below rated range

    I too have the display set to SOC rather than Rated Range. Two reasons. First, the Rated Range is a useless lie. To get real range I would have to subtract 30%. Not an easy thing to do at a glance. So why look at it. It will just create confusion and frustration. Second, when set to SOC, I can...
  26. P

    Battery Replaced Under Warranty - 30+ miles below rated range

    You are correct that there is a Rated Range which relies on a "hardwired" value for wh/mile. (On mine, it is 300 wh/mile). Most of us here having this discussion understand that perfectly well. The other factor that determines range is the usable capacity of the battery. (Range equals Battery...
  27. P

    Lifetime Average Wh/mi

    Weight and weight distribution can't be much different. I thought that the biggest contributor to increased efficiency was the newer front motor.
  28. P

    Battery Replaced Under Warranty - 30+ miles below rated range

    Those numbers tell a clear story. Original battery, new: 350 wh/mi x 208 mi = 72.8 kwh Original battery, ultimately: 315 wh/mi x 190 mi = 60 kwh Replacement battery: 270 wh/mi x 173 mi = 47 kwh Looks like your "new" battery is performing far below reasonable expectations. I don't know what is...
  29. P

    Lifetime Average Wh/mi

    Compared to older Model S cars, that 253 wh/mile is pretty incredible. Mine is 351 averaged over many years. Earlier in this post, the older Model S cars seemed to average in the low to mid 300's. One time, trying really hard, in ideal conditions, I got 307 wh/mile on a 200 mile circuit. You...
  30. P

    Battery Replaced Under Warranty - 30+ miles below rated range

    Very interesting. So; what range are you getting with this new battery? (achieved range. Not displayed range). And at what wh/mile? What were those numbers on the original battery?
  31. P

    Battery Replaced Under Warranty - 30+ miles below rated range

    I have seen this displayed. But I did not capture it.
  32. P

    Battery Replaced Under Warranty - 30+ miles below rated range

    I have long suspected that energy used while parked might not be counted in that trips page. So all of my measurements of battery capacity have had no or trivial Park times. This is pretty easy to do considering that while in park (with HCAV off) my battery loses about 1% of capacity in 24 hrs.
  33. P

    Battery Replaced Under Warranty - 30+ miles below rated range

    The CAN bus read-out and multiple observations of the trip computer have always and repeatedly showed 72-73 kwh of usable capacity. For example, if I take a trip which takes the battery from 80% to 30%, the kwh used will be 36 kwh. Any portion of the battery divided into the kwh used always...
  34. P

    Battery Replaced Under Warranty - 30+ miles below rated range

    Tell me more about; "his homes are on Zillow".
  35. P

    Battery Replaced Under Warranty - 30+ miles below rated range

    I claimed that my cars display of range is concealing battery degradation because: The display of full charge range is within 5-10 miles of when brand new (and other 90D's displayed the same full charge range). And this like-new display of range persists despite the fact that my battery has only...
  36. P

    Battery Replaced Under Warranty - 30+ miles below rated range

    As a partial compensation for the simple-minded and uselessly optimistic display of rated range, the navigator does a very good job of predicting what your battery percent will be at the end of your trip. Mine even displays the battery percent at the end of an assumed round trip, This calculator...
  37. P

    Battery Replaced Under Warranty - 30+ miles below rated range

    This goes along with my experience as well. I also got evasive and nonsensical answers when complaining about loss of battery capacity and loss of range in a nearly brand new car. A few months ago a service manager told me that Tesla will not replace a battery for any loss of capacity or range...
  38. P

    Battery Replaced Under Warranty - 30+ miles below rated range

    You are correct. It is two separate issues. One, useable battery capacity. And two, rated wh/mile, driving efficiency. They both impact range. In my car, both are inaccurate in a way to falsely elevate displayed and advertised range. My useable battery capacity is (and long has been) about 15%...
  39. P

    Calculating battery degradation on buying used S 85

    Now that I know the definitions, it makes sense. Battery degradation (battery capacity loss) equals Nominal new car minus Nominal now. Or, I suppose, it would be Useable new car minus Useable now. They should be the same. In fact, if they aren't the same, the only explanation would be that the...
  40. P

    Calculating battery degradation on buying used S 85

    Okay. It's just a weird use of the word "nominal".
  41. P

    Calculating battery degradation on buying used S 85

    So the "nominal" battery capacity is changing? If so, then I cannot imagine what "nominal" means here.
  42. P

    Calculating battery degradation on buying used S 85

    Thanks. I get it. Marketing capacity (85 kwh). Real, new, ideal, calculated capacity (81.5 kwh) being called "nominal".
  43. P

    Lifetime Average Wh/mi

    Interesting to consider variations between individual cars. Tire pressure? Wheel alignment?
  44. P

    Lifetime Average Wh/mi

    No. I cannot "easily go under the rated number" in my car. Of course I can get low consumption going downhill or coasting. But any trip that represents anything like normal driving will consume significantly more than the rated wh/mi. Remember, there is "Ideal Range" and "Rated Range". Ideal...
  45. P

    Calculating battery degradation on buying used S 85

    Thanks. But I still don't know what this new definition of "nominal" refers to. It is called an "85 kwh" battery. Due to top and bottom buffers the usable capacity is 77.5 kwh. What does 81.5 kwh refer to? Doesn't matter much. Just weird.
  46. P

    Calculating battery degradation on buying used S 85

    What is the meaning of the word "nominal" here? The usual meaning of that word in this situation is the named value. Like a 2 by 4 is only nominally a 2x4. Its actual dimensions are less. An "85 kwh" battery pack is, by definition, nominally 85 kwh. That is the name of it. Its usable capacity is...
  47. P

    Battery Replaced Under Warranty - 30+ miles below rated range

    To make a good argument to Tesla that the battery is inadequate, you need a more substantive complaint than simply the display of range is low. That display of range could be way off (It sure is on my car). The real bottom line is achievable range. In a way, it really is all you care about. We...
  48. P

    Battery Replaced Under Warranty - 30+ miles below rated range

    My 90 kwh battery only has 72 kwh of usable capacity. When new the "90 kwh" batteries had a usable capacity in the low 80's. And that would be fine. My car was a dealer demo for the first 6 months of its life, early 2016. Showroom cars (at that time) were always charged up to 100% to show off...
  49. P

    Battery Replaced Under Warranty - 30+ miles below rated range

    Interesting situation. You probably got a deficient battery. The rep gave you terrible answers. However, you do need to drive the car to determine the actual range. Then, if that is less than it should be, you can pin down Tesla with the fact that your actual achieved range is less than it...
  50. P

    Calculating battery degradation on buying used S 85

    The cars display of range may not reveal significant battery degradation. (My 90D displays a nearly new full charge range even though the usable capacity of the battery is only about 72 kwh and the real range is only about 70% of the displayed range). The cars display of wh/mile (or wh/km) tells...