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In a recent video, Tesla Bjorn provides some evidence that Tesla is using the battery pack as a "store of heat." Go to the 8 minute mark of this video to see it yourself: #69 Road trip to Stavanger in 2021 Model 3 Bjorn says the car scavenges battery pack...

Used car prices going up is relatively normal during recessions. People prefer going used instead of new to save $$$. It’s not entirely rational when the price gets up high enough so it’s really temporary. This happened in 09 as well based on CPI data from the BLS that has separate used and new...

Exactly this. At current prices, it's better to just buy new, because of how well used prices have held up.

Considering a $7,500 tax credit, was this effectively $55.5k purchase price? So you "paid" $10k for 2 years and 7,000 miles of use?

Some have sold their used Model 3s for nearly the purchase price (adjusted for tax credits). Depreciation in an economic sense (including tax credits) has been limited and the new car prices have declined over time. I believe this is a temporary factor, because it benefits from more demand than...

They say that, but it's becoming more the trend of batched updates. It's extremely difficult for an automaker to manage their supply chain, engineering designs, and spare parts inventory if there's too many changes per week. I think it was more normal early on, because Tesla had no choice but to...

Except to the extent it reduces weight if pack capacity is not increased.

Likely battery chemistry. My understanding is the impact of a heat pump is negligible on EPA range ratings. It's a real world benefit for sure, but maybe not EPA estimate.

Any chance it has a heat pump?

Exactly the same situation here - I can put up with a colder car, but others will not. I'm hopeful the heat pump allows someone to keep the cabin at 76F on a mild winter road trip even down to 20F without as dramatic of a range hit as it would have been previously. The way I see it, the...

First - I think it will be useful to a lower range than 40F. The reality is neither of us know for sure and there hasn’t been a lot of A/B scientific testing yet with Tesla. I have posted some research showing the heat pump added over 10% range to the fiat 500e at 14F however. You can see it...

It will still be better than the previous system, because there’s a temperature window where you reduce the battery consumption. Below that point, they still have the backup heating method through electric motors like the Model 3 already has. In terms of design, it shouldn’t be a negative.

Nearly impossible. There’s too many components involved for them to consider it. The cost would be more than trading in the car unfortunately.

The data is attached and the source linked below. If it's anything like the Nissan Leaf, there should be an improvement in cold temperatures. The full article probably has more detail, but the range increase was 13% at -10C (14F). Unitary Thermal Energy Management for Propulsion Range...

They can. The issue is that when it’s so cold, say 10F, and you’re on a road trip, the battery can’t retain enough heat for very long. This is still a big help when it’s 40F outside and you want to travel a long distance. As a prospective buyer, I consider this to be a 10% range increase down...

My understanding is that Tesla typically begins rolling out new versions of the vehicle and doesn't announce the changes until after the fact. This would allow them to avoid the issue of people holding off on orders, because they know a new version is starting production on a specific date...

I agree it's the hotel's responsibility, but it might be more of an issue where it's just very low priority and they don't actually care. The only solution I see is that either Tesla creates some enforcement or other feedback. They could enforce it with agreements for the entire hotel chain...

I wish I had any advice on the slow responses. There are two items I’ll say: 1. again, this process could take a while. Or it could be short. We don’t know and so I highly suggest you take a rental while they sort this out. If it’s 3 weeks, are you okay without a car that long? 2. if responses...

It can be as often as daily.

Yes - they'll send the money owed to Tesla directly to them. I don't know about your deposit so I can't comment on that. Have they assigned you a rental until this all sorted out? I would focus on the rental aspect and let other items occur at their own pace. I'm very sorry about this and am...

Aha I see that more when I zoom in now. Any thoughts on why they'd want the Model 3 to go to an iron based chemistry while the Y uses more nickel + manganese? Do you know this would also apply to the LR Model 3?

Isn't that a model 3 in the middle category as well?

Was that a hint that an iron based model 3 is coming to the US? I was expecting it at yesterday's event...

Have they ever provided full pricing on module replacement for high mileage model 3s? It's not yet offered as a service, is it?

The Model S experienced this for many years. There were a few changes that occurred: 1. Remove the lowest range model, initially the 40 kWh battery (software limited 60), then change the official 60 kWh with a 75 but software lock, then remove the 60, and so on... prices improved too. 2. This...

Each of these upgrades in marginal for most people compared to the early improvements where Tesla owners would stop at campgrounds to charge at high power, because there wasn't such a large supercharger network. I think the minor changes now are just that, minor. I wouldn't worry about it and...

You have to try it first. The amount of relaxation is very different when you can stretch your hands, rotate your neck, and even just more comfortable drink some water/soda. I understand your perspective and feel that way until they try it more often.

Removal of SR+ is possible. In the last quarterly call, Elon dropped a hint about the minimum range for an EV should be 300 miles. This routine of increasing range across a lineup has occurred for years with the Model S and could occur here too. If you're about to order, I'd wait for battery day...

A-ha. Thank you for spelling that out! It was always a point of confusion.

Thanks for spelling out so much of this. My understanding was that the Model 3 only generated heat from the electric motors, and not an external heating device like the Model S and X have. Is that your understanding too? And if it is, does that example of the contract loss for the air heater...

I believe Mobileye's concern was around two items. One, they did not like implementations that risked user safety, and they claim their system was not designed or intended to be used in an autopilot-like system. For them, a part of the concern came to fruition when a Tesla Model S drove under...

What are the circumstances in which an off-board faster DC charger is helpful? For daily use, the goal might just be that it can charge overnight, maybe 6-10 hours? I'd assume the use cases are small enough that most don't want the added equipment of a DC charger/converter at their home?

I hope this encourages locations to install more of them. They might even consider allowing locations to earn a greater margin than 2 cents per kWh if it allows more expensive sites to recoup their costs.

Ideally some kind of built in communication system that just sends a little message alerting Tesla of incoming power and even charging success/failures when connected to a car. It adds to the cost, but I wonder if it could become a lower cost charging model. It would allow Tesla to offer...

It's officially the end of their involvement... but it would be great if Tesla could detect issues and be a little proactive on finding a resolution. I'm sure it will improve with time, but it affects the experience of Tesla owners who might be counting on that for a full battery by the morning.

Makes sense. Hopefully they release the heat pump for the model 3 - I can make it work for my long drives with its HVAC improvements. There might be a benefit from drawing the battery pack's heat during the winter and that would also help.

I see what you're saying. Do you think they would allow dumping heat into the battery pack intentionally as part of the warmup? Maybe it's something that is enabled while on range mode and charging? I see the benefit ahead of a road trip, but maybe I'm underestimating just how much power and...

Their efficiency, measured by the COP, can be high. In reality, that efficiency is seen at temperatures when it is warmer and it's not as helpful. If you travel in mild climates, say 50-60F, it will help, but only marginally, because your heating needs wouldn't have been much to begin with. The...

camalaio - thanks for the details you wrote up in this thread. I've been looking for the in-depth summary like this for a long time. I agree with everything you wrote. Two items that stood out include: 1. Model Y's heat pump and connection to the battery pack could really improve winter...

That makes a lot of sense. Thanks for explaining it. Maybe battery day will give us more detail in case the S and X get the heat pump. I expect it’s too early for the model 3, but never know. The heated charge port could also be a nice benefit that spreads beyond the Y.

I wonder why they haven't done this? Seems like an easy thermal mass that they can put heat into and provide comfort to the riders.

Sorry to bump an old thread... are we possibly overlooking the impacts of a car in motion and not just the stationary temperature? I ask, because while a home's HVAC system might use a heat pump with greater than 100% efficiency down to X Fahrenheit, it depends a lot on the amount of air flow...

You are highly unlikely to need to replace an entire battery. This isn't like the batteries in your remote running out. You are more likely to end up with a few bad cells and just need to replace them. Yes, there will be a cost associated with having your battery pack removed, opened, and those...

I don't know if it will, because I have no intelligent way to estimating the efficiency they will achieve and what they may have done with the HVAC system. But when it comes to being an ICE replacement, including road trips, this car can actually accomplish it. The Bolt can't - at least not yet.

They have a lot of cards up their sleeve, but given that they have made intentions clear to build more gigafactories, I think they will need to come to the capital markets for more funding. If I were in their shoes, it would coincide with model 3 production ramping at any cost, positive reviews...

Okay. But will it have a HUD?

I agree to not bash it, though range of 120 still limits it to short range travel and to those with a garage as it requires nightly charging. A tesla with more range can handle those uses much better. The model 3 works for me because the range upgrade should allow me to make it my only car.

Sure, but in the case of this thread, it seems that he's systematically below what the car should be capable of and it deviates from the population of cars.

That's pretty weak on Tesla's part and disappointing. Some of the service issues and lack of openness make me think twice about my upcoming purchase. Despite that, I tell myself that the positives (autopilot, primarily) outweigh it. I hope I'm not disappointed on delivery of my future car.

Have we had two people charge their Tesla's at the same location with a similar SoC? If they are both throttled to these low rates that the OP (Mattzilla) is getting, then it's likely an output issue. If it's limited to one car, then it has to do more with that specific car. If it's the former...