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Given the company's track record and knowing what I know now, I myself would not allow them to keep kicking the can down the road. I would get in writing the refusal to honor the new car warranty and threaten arbitration / lemon law action if they won't budge. The yellow glue issue showed up in...

I don't think that it is a good idea at all to pay any substantial amount in advance. Just make your payment upon satisfactory inspection and delivery of the car. That's the way it has been done for ages in almost every other car buying or even general retail setting. If they give you grief...

I did a little bit more reading on this issue. I'm no lawyer, but this is what I found: according to "Lemon-aid for Consumers" from the CA Department of Consumer Affairs, The criteria for number of repair attempts and time out of service are simply guidelines to presume that a vehicle is a...

Any chance you could write some more about the details of your lemon law claim? Information on the process would be great reference for anyone dealing with this in the future. I encountered the yellow border issue less than a year into ownership and also experienced Tesla kicking the can down...

Car is sold. Thanks everyone for your interest.

Selling a December 2017 Model S 75 with ~24K miles on it. Metallic pearl white exterior, black interior with multi-pattern fabric seats. Includes Enhanced Autopilot (automatic lanekeeping + lane change, Navigate on Autopilot, automatic parking, enhanced summon). Blackvue 750S dual camera dashcam...

I'm not really big on turning this into a pricing debate thread, so all I'll say is that if you're interested in buying, shoot me a PM and we can talk about the price. I'm sure that we can find something mutually agreeable. Thanks all the same.

Selling a December 2017 Model S 75 with ~24K miles on it. Metallic pearl white exterior, black interior with multi-pattern fabric seats. Includes Enhanced Autopilot (automatic lanekeeping + lane change, Navigate on Autopilot, automatic parking, vehicle summon). Blackvue 750S dual camera dashcam...

Reducing price to $56K.

@Greengolfer I'd be happy to show it to you. I'm fairly nearby. Will send you a PM!

Not sure if you're still looking, but I recently posted what you're looking for: a December 2017 Pearl White S75 with EAP. Located in SoCal - San Bernardino County. Please PM if interested! 2017 (Dec.) Model S75 23K Miles $58K, San Bernardino, CA

Forgot to note that the car is still under the original manufacturer 4 year / 50K mile warranty. Here are some more photos:

Selling a December 2017 Model S75 with ~23K miles on it. Pearl white exterior paint, black interior with multi-pattern fabric seats. Has Enhanced Autopilot. Car is in very good condition. There are some small chips / scratches mostly on the front bumper from normal road use. Only owner, clean...

Good luck! Hope that stuff gets sorted out.

Still showing $2000 for me.

The tweet in question is misleading at best. He portrays remaining work as if it is a validation problem via large data collection. It clearly isn't. For one thing, how do you validate a system that you know does not work in its operational environment? If any of the engineers behind the scenes...

Do these semantics even matter? Nothing about the new FSD description guarantees that you're going to get a useful system, even if the stated goals are 100% achieved to buyers' imaginations (which I don't believe will happen at all in the medium-term). One caveat about the system requiring...

Saw your post about it earlier, very interesting find. You have more insight on this than I do, but it seems like they could simply be laying groundwork in advance, but the decision to actually activate the update is independent and could happen three months from now. So it might make his tweet...

So recently, Elon tweeted that we would receive "confirmation-free" Navigate on Autopilot in a March 15 wide release. That day has passed and there hasn't been a peep about it. Who was saying that they were relying on his tweets to make purchasing decisions?

I'm preparing an L5 system in my garage. I'd be happy to pre-sell it to you. Delivery will occur upon a full validation and regulatory approval.

Using Navigate on Autopilot even in mild traffic will get me rear-ended where I am. I've disabled the "feature" on my car. I have very low expectations for the upcoming update, if it's even real.

Stupid question: if the HW3 upgrade is so certain, why don't they add it to the website description of FSD?

Sorry, that's not going to work here. As I stated a few pages back, I am not an early adopter. I came in as a regular customer - not an early adopter, not an investor, not a fanatic. If you've been with Tesla for a while, you should know the troubled history of their AP project. The recent...

The logic is very simple. People pre-ordered products that were never delivered and barely exist, e.g. autopilot. Tesla changed the price and kept the difference. No reputable business would ever do this. Elon himself tweeted that he could not make existing customers whole - in other words, the...

Come on man, I think you've had enough. If stuff like choosing whether or not to rip off customers is a "tough decision", then you have some serious problems. I suggest looking for a business ethics class with your company or local college.

I'll comment that I came into Tesla at the end of 2017 as a regular consumer - not some "early adopter", investor, or fanatic. I have no objective other can purchasing a fair product. When people excuse the company's recent behaviour by defending the company's existence or quoting some...

That's certainly true. So where's the FSD demo? Tesla hasn't been a company to hold back its early development, in order to drum up hype.

Indeed it is. Seeing your posts in other threads, your comments have been very far from what I'd consider "cautious". I'll also add that what you have said is a very clear mis-representation of what has been going on with EAP development, which has been legitimately controversial. To say...

And how about a money argument? If Tesla truly believed that they had a real L4 solution, shouldn't they be charging more for it, not less, as seen in the recent pricing debacle? I guarantee that people would be clamoring for it and would be willing pay tens of thousands of dollars for the...

Perhaps because there is actually some merit to them? I would like to know what your background is that justifies your unlimited defense of Tesla. Are you involved in safety-of-life engineering? Do you have insider knowledge of some type? The technical users of this forum have the exact...

I wonder if there will be any recourse for owners in general. A major selling point was that the car would be upgradable to an FSD platform via a paid software update, i.e. it was FSD-capable even if you didn't buy the software right away. It is becoming more and more obvious every week that...

Cue in the apologist who complains that you are acting "entitled". How dare you ask for what you paid for!

To me this just looks like a panic cash grab. That's the only explanation for why they would think to screw over EAP/FSD pre-order customers and fire-sell the (promises of a) product.

I move that this topic simply be closed. It is creating less value than the claimed "hostile" posts. Less distraction, more technical content.

The other thing that I find disturbing is that Elon is straight-up saying that the company F-ed over early supporters, yet the apologists are still blaming critics or rushing to buy things. I can't believe what I've been seeing this past week.

I don't get this. We're all adults here, we don't need babysitting. I don't even see the problem with someone being hostile - we should all have the faculties to respond appropriately. The real discussion killer is the presence of comments that are extremely assertive but completely uninformed...

I don't think that anyone claims certainty, but recent behaviour by Tesla really shouldn't give any reason to trust them.

I don't think that the shareholders will be happy to hear this.

No worries. Best of luck! Regardless of what anybody believes is in store, I think that it's still hard to argue that the wording itself anything but a big cop out.

Try taking a look through the responses to this thread. Seems that the technically-oriented people think that the new wording is so slick that it guarantees you nothing.

I'm just in the EAP boat, but if Tesla does the right thing and offers FSD to current EAP users, then anybody who purchased FSD needs to also be compensated fairly. This Early Access crap is not compensation. I'll also add that for some reason, this type of unified customer-oriented opinion...

Great topic @lunitiks. It's hard for me to really evaluate the new wording and also set aside what I know now about the technical and business status of the company. However, I have had some benefit of chatting some technically-oriented co-workers who are interested in the new developments but...

The heart of the problem is not the price drops. It's that Tesla kept money on very incomplete or totally undelivered products. If you pre-order a product on Amazon and its price drops before delivery, they refund the difference. Very simple common sense. I'm not sure why this is such a...

The title of this thread is misleading and almost implies that there was some kind of major technical breakthrough requiring more testers. In reality, the Early Access Program is just being used as a sink for backlash over their recent AP product pricing ripoff.

I've had a similar thing happen to me many years ago. In hindsight, I probably should have just gone through the motions of exchanging information, even if I had no intention of making a claim. People like that need to be put under the lamp so that hopefully they never do it again.

I don't even consider that example to be really applicable to EAP either. For a long time we had to deal with dead-end development on the simple lanekeeping function. It wasn't until mid-2018 that things started to truly improve, when Karpathy's concepts reached the release builds. And Navigate...

Looks like the final word is out on the pricing: Twitter Elon is basically admitting that the company position is F-U to early supporters of their incomplete or nonexistent AP products. Thanks man.

We can argue all day about SAE levels, software development, system integrity all day with people who probably don't understand certain or any aspects of safety-of-life engineering. There's no point to it. Instead, I have a proposal that I think will resolve this. For anybody who says that...

The AP3 swap out was the only shoddy justification I could think of to charge existing users a fee for FSD. If no one has it, what is the purpose of throwing us under the bus?

What I meant was that if you were an early adopter, you needed to pay $5000 for EAP plus $3000 for FSD, and you had to support / survive an extremely troubled development process. Now they are dumping it out to new users for $2000 + $3000 for the same package.