‘22 MX LR v MX P100D

[Kan-O-Z]

We received delivery of our MX LR and it is amazing and surprisingly fast. We really wanted the Plaid but only went with LR because 6 seat option was not going to work for us. We are replacing an older SUV and we fold all the rear seats quite often to carry larger items. In addition we need a bench seat for our dogs.

In the past we had test driven a P100D w/Ludicrous and the performance blew us away. Recently I noticed that the new LR has better specs than the older P100D.

P100D: 605hp, 5531lbs weight, 289 mile range, 0-60 2.9 sec

‘22 LR: 670hp, 5185 lbs weight, 347 mile range, 0-60 3.9 sec

The new LR has 65 more horsepower and is 346lbs lighter and yet almost 1 sec slower to 60?

The new LR should be faster 0-60. Is Tesla underrating it and/or is it purposely being software limited? If so could there be an update to unlock the full potential or even an acceleration boost in the future?

 

[kchau]

1. permanent magnet motors vs induction
2. yes
3. yes

 

[Kan-O-Z]

1. permanent magnet motors vs induction
2. yes
3. yes

So does that mean the permanent magnet motors are not as good 0-60? They certainly seem better in the mid to high range from what I’m reading.

If that is true then wouldn’t that mean 0-60 time can’t really be improved from a software update?

 

[kchau]

Maybe, permanent magnet motors are interesting at 0rpm and very low rpm. with induction motors, you just dump current into the stator, and as long as the rotor doesn't melt, you're fine. That's what the performance induction motor was - it was just big and could handle a ton of power.

Only tesla knows if they have software limited the motors. If they are running maxed like the PM motors in the MYP and M3P, then they wouldn't open it up anymore, but if they left some overhead - then there is a possibility of an unlock.

 

[Richbot]

There's another thread with Dragy results from a Long Range that were just posted. The refreshed Long Range must pull significantly harder post-launch, especially above 60mph, than the pre-refresh X Performance. 11.4 or so, at 121+, with a totally nerfed launch, is pretty amazing

I seriously doubt it's the capability of the motors to launch harder, in the videos I've watched of S and X it's also being held back below ~45mph or so, and I they are just holding the car back to keep differentiation from the Plaid and, probably, keep the powertrain alive longer because it's still got the same articulation as the old X and still can kill axles, especially with a lot of squat induced by that big back motor shoving the front end into the air. It'd be a high 10-second 1/4 mile with the launch uncorked just a bit, and the S Long Range would run low-mid 10's just like the old Raven Performance did.

 

[Kan-O-Z]

There's another thread with Dragy results from a Long Range that were just posted. The refreshed Long Range must pull significantly harder post-launch, especially above 60mph, than the pre-refresh X Performance. 11.4 or so, at 121+, with a totally nerfed launch, is pretty amazing

I seriously doubt it's the capability of the motors to launch harder, in the videos I've watched of S and X it's also being held back below ~45mph or so, and I they are just holding the car back to keep differentiation from the Plaid and, probably, keep the powertrain alive longer because it's still got the same articulation as the old X and still can kill axles, especially with a lot of squat induced by that big back motor shoving the front end into the air. It'd be a high 10-second 1/4 mile with the launch uncorked just a bit, and the S Long Range would run low-mid 10's just like the old Raven Performance did.

That’s what I was thinking. Software limited to keep more differentiation between the Plaid and LR.

Hoping they do uncork it a bit. The BMW iX (which is about $30k less than LR) is rated better 0-60 (3.5?) so they should at least put the LR into low 3s or 3 flat to be competitive.

As for the articulation issue wouldn’t the plaid also have the same problem?

As mentioned I would have gotten the Plaid of offered in more seat configurations. I think Tesla could have made more money had they offered the Plaid in the same way they offer the LR. It’s a mistake on their part. I’m sure there are many like me who just didn’t want the 6 seat option. I do wonder if perhaps there is something with the way the bench seat is mounted and something with the structure underneath and the 3rd motor. Maybe they weren’t willing to redesign something with the frame or the seats which then makes sense.

All that being said the LR does indeed feel fast with 1-2 people but I could see it feeling more normal once you have loaded it with people which is where the plaid could be much appreciated.

 

[Richbot]

I think the Plaid has the same problem but they figure breaking things on the high performance 9.8-1/4 mile version will be more tolerable for the owners. I know I would expect the base model to be the one you can expect to buy without a bunch of precious hypercar-like reliability problems. Fat chance with a Model X, but hey, it's worth hoping for, lol. I'll tolerate hypercar problems if I get hypercar performance, if I'm just getting "mind-blowing for 2007" performance, I want the damn thing to work

I think they made Plaid 6 seat only for now because they needed to ship cars, and a 7-seat and 5-seat option will eventually return once they've run the backlog down to the 2-3 month lead time they were running with in the final two years or so when the Raven was being produced. There's zero technical reason for it to not be compatible with a bench, it's a flat floor all the way abck to the third row bulkhead regardless, and without the complication of the pedestal seats you'd expect the 5-seat in particular to be much easier and cheaper to make and integrate into the car. But the 5 and 7 seat interiors have different carpet and floor stampings and IIRC they cited in one of their earnings calls the X delay was due to a huge backlog of interior trim suppliers. I get the feeling the Plaid rear motor assembly is a pretty enormously expensive piece, so the margin on Long Range might be better than it looks compared to Plaid. Unless Plaid and Long Range are literally assembled on different production lines, there will eventually be a business case to bring back that option as I would think the body shell between Plaid and Long range are identical and the only differences are in the skateboard.

Halfshaft replacement is still on the "weird vibration" service heuristic for Plaid S, and several X plaid owners have reported shudder-like symptoms, so I don't think that problem is dead yet, though the latest parts (which are now being used on the legacy replacements too) seem to be much better. Mine are almost 20,000 miles old and while I still get a vibration occasionally after using High or Very High, the very distrinctive BRRT noise from the CV's has never returend

Plaid Vibration around 38-42MPH....

I know that the SvC's have re-balanced wheels, however, I don't think that precludes a problem with runout or other wheel defect. I know it's not convenient, but could one of you try a different wheelset? Especially since you can't swap front to back.

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[Kan-O-Z]

I think the Plaid has the same problem but they figure breaking things on the high performance 9.8-1/4 mile version will be more tolerable for the owners. I know I would expect the base model to be the one you can expect to buy without a bunch of precious hypercar-like reliability problems. Fat chance with a Model X, but hey, it's worth hoping for, lol. I'll tolerate hypercar problems if I get hypercar performance, if I'm just getting "mind-blowing for 2007" performance, I want the damn thing to work

I think they made Plaid 6 seat only for now because they needed to ship cars, and a 7-seat and 5-seat option will eventually return once they've run the backlog down to the 2-3 month lead time they were running with in the final two years or so when the Raven was being produced. There's zero technical reason for it to not be compatible with a bench, it's a flat floor all the way abck to the third row bulkhead regardless, and without the complication of the pedestal seats you'd expect the 5-seat in particular to be much easier and cheaper to make and integrate into the car. But the 5 and 7 seat interiors have different carpet and floor stampings and IIRC they cited in one of their earnings calls the X delay was due to a huge backlog of interior trim suppliers. I get the feeling the Plaid rear motor assembly is a pretty enormously expensive piece, so the margin on Long Range might be better than it looks compared to Plaid. Unless Plaid and Long Range are literally assembled on different production lines, there will eventually be a business case to bring back that option as I would think the body shell between Plaid and Long range are identical and the only differences are in the skateboard.

Halfshaft replacement is still on the "weird vibration" service heuristic for Plaid S, and several X plaid owners have reported shudder-like symptoms, so I don't think that problem is dead yet, though the latest parts (which are now being used on the legacy replacements too) seem to be much better. Mine are almost 20,000 miles old and while I still get a vibration occasionally after using High or Very High, the very distrinctive BRRT noise from the CV's has never returend

Plaid Vibration around 38-42MPH....

I know that the SvC's have re-balanced wheels, however, I don't think that precludes a problem with runout or other wheel defect. I know it's not convenient, but could one of you try a different wheelset? Especially since you can't swap front to back.

teslamotorsclub.com

Well I’ll be bummed if after 2 months they announce plaid with 5/7 seat option. I really wanted that. I still don’t get that as a strategy for simplifying/speeding up things. After all I would assume more people are going for the LR. That would the the model to streamline things on. I remember reading from an insider leak that they will not offer plaid with the other seat options. My guess is they can certainly make it work but maybe it does require a little bit of rework somewhere. Maybe the seats themselves can’t handle the acceleration. Could be a host of things. What they’ve done is lose extra money they could have made with more people choosing plaid instead of LR. But of course no one really knows and I’m likely wrong on that

 

[Richbot]

I bet it’ll be two years before they’re caught up on X/S production

Personally I want a 4-seater with nothing in the middle heh

 

[Kan-O-Z]

I was wondering if anyone could help clarify why in some places the older (non-refresh) Model X Performance is listed at 785hp, 0-60 at 2.7sec and the P100D is listed at 605hp, 0-60 at 2.9sec.

Was this a software update to the P100D or was there a more powerful version with more powerful motors? Also where did the Raven come into the picture?

 

[kchau]

I was wondering if anyone could help clarify why in some places the older (non-refresh) Model X Performance is listed at 785hp, 0-60 at 2.7sec and the P100D is listed at 605hp, 0-60 at 2.9sec.

Was this a software update to the P100D or was there a more powerful version with more powerful motors? Also where did the Raven come into the picture?

Raven

 

[FirstInTown]

Fyi, my 2022 LR did 3.80 on my Draggy 0-60. Battery only at 64% and never got Cheeta mode to work either so more to give? My 2020 Raven LR+ rated at 4.4 sec, had a best time of 4.61 Draggy for me. New one is faster for sure.

 

[DCGOO]

Fyi, my 2022 LR did 3.80 on my Draggy 0-60. Battery only at 64% and never got Cheeta mode to work either so more to give? My 2020 Raven LR+ rated at 4.4 sec, had a best time of 4.61 Draggy for me. New one is faster for sure.

2020 LR rated HP = 534
2022 LR rated HP = 670

Might have something to do with it.

 

[Kan-O-Z]

Thanks for the reply. From what I’m reading it sounds like the Raven models (both performance and LR) used magnetic motors in the front. So it was more than a software update.

 

[Kan-O-Z]

Fyi, my 2022 LR did 3.80 on my Draggy 0-60. Battery only at 64% and never got Cheeta mode to work either so more to give? My 2020 Raven LR+ rated at 4.4 sec, had a best time of 4.61 Draggy for me. New one is faster for sure.

That’s great. I also read someone else was getting 3.4 sec using full charge and cheetah mode. Pretty awesome.

I do think Tesla can probably “uncork” it to 2.9-3.0sec range since the refresh LR does indeed have more power than the P100D(non raven). That one had a 0-60 time of 2.9sec.

Here’s to hoping they release an update or even an acceleration boost upgrade.

 

[Riceball777]

the new 2022 refreshed model s and model x is much faster then the older p100d performance version. Drag times on you tube trapped 129-130mph on the new non performance 2022 model s during a 1/4 miles run. That is a much higher trap speed than the old performance version. But they did notice that the launch and 0-60 times are slower then the old performance version. I think most likely Tesla has done this on purpose via software in order to spread the gap between the base and the plaid and also to not make the old p100d look bad. The pre 2021 cars use to fall flate on its face pass 100mph but the new 2022 cars pull much harder on the top end past 100mph.

 

[Kan-O-Z]

the new 2022 refreshed model s and model x is much faster then the older p100d performance version. Drag times on you tube trapped 129-130mph on the new non performance 2022 model s. That is a much higher trap speed than the old performance version. But they did notice that the launch and 0-60 times are slower then the old performance version. I think most likely Tesla has done this on purpose via software in order to spread the gap between the base and the plaid and also to not make the old p100d look bad.

Thanks and thats what some are also suspecting. I do hope they are going to provide an update to unlock that 0-60 if that is indeed possible. If you configure a LR with 6 seat option, there is only a $10k difference with the Plaid. Being that close in price, the performance should also be closer.

As I mentioned earlier, the 6 seat option is not suitable for us as well as many others. I have dogs, luggage, crates that I just cannot do without a bench seat that does not fold flat. What's the point of an SUV if you can't haul the things you want to haul.

I'm hoping an update makes people less regret that they did not get the Plaid (esp for minimal price differential). Honestly the LR accelerates very nicely but an update would be icing on the cake. 0-60 in 3.0 would be perfect!

 

[Kan-O-Z]

After driving the new MX LR some more I get what others are talking about. It's like they limited the initial acceleration on purpose and you can almost feel it being held back. BUT after that it accelerates insanely fast! Even if you punch it at 15/20 mph it goes hard and doesn't let off! Faster than a Model X P100D ludicrous I remember testing many years ago. I am impressed by the power and can't imagine what the Plaid might feel like.

I bet if they open it up the potential numbers may be 0-60 in the 2.9-3.0 range and the quarter in the high 10s/130mph range. I can see why with potential numbers like that they would want to hold it back from the Plaid.

Another cool thing is that the refresh Model X LR is one of the lightest versions they have ever made at 5185lbs. 463 lbs lighter than the Performance, 346lbs lighter than the P100D, and 205lbs lighter than the Plaid.

 

[Richbot]

It finally weighs what you'd sorta expect a premium midsize 7-seat all-aluminum unibody crossover to weigh, heh

Remember when Audi was doing all-aluminum big cars, and the A8 weighed less than a 5-series? What ever happened to that? Oh well. Hope the trend continues because my poor old garage floor has 11000lb of vehicle on eight contact patches right now.