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“Drive on Nav” feature in Enhanced Autopilot v9.0

Discussion in 'Autopilot & Autonomous/FSD' started by strangecosmos, Sep 6, 2018.

  1. jimmy_d

    jimmy_d Deep Learning Dork

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    Just to clarify a few things:

    While it's true that speculation about how AP works is just that, it is based on quite a bit more than just filenames. The reason that I know about post processing networks is because I walked the decompiled binaries and found the other networks - they do not appear in the filesystem. From that code I can tell what libraries are used, the shape of the networks, the character of their outputs and so forth. That information constrains the possible uses of those networks pretty tightly so there's a lot that can be deduced from it. One of the things we can deduce is that the NNs don't yet control the car directly, rather they provide highly abstracted perceptual information that comparably simple control software can use to make effective driving decisions.

    #323

    I've learned a lot about the networks since those posts but haven't bothered to post technical details that aren't going to be interesting to most of the people on these forums. It takes a lot of time to carefully write up that stuff and the audience for it is pretty small. But it's worth saying that I haven't seen anything so far that invalidates my earlier speculation and I've seen plenty of stuff that supports it.

    But to weigh in generally, what I see is consistent with the idea that Tesla is going with Karpathy's Software 2.0 thing as @strangecosmos suggests, and I agree that these EAP features are probably going to roll out incrementally with less driver intervention over time as the features mature and as it becomes clear how the driver population is using and reacting to them. The car is already doing a lot of processing beyond what is strictly needed for the features we can use today and it's reasonable to see that as evidence of Tesla laying the groundwork for future capabilities. That future AP growth is dominated by features that will be brought about by an increase in the NN capabilities. So just as the Software 2.0 concept implies, the fraction of AP behavior that is learned will continue to grow. Right now that increases the amount of written code in absolute terms, but fraction of AP functionality that comes from that written code will continue to decline.
     
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  2. thimel

    thimel Member

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    I find your posts about NN architecture very interesting and informative. I may have never responded to your posts, but would definitely be appreciative if you continue to write up what you learn. I suspect there are many others in the same boat.
     
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  3. pleeau

    pleeau Member

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    I agree that these posts are awesome. Honestly, some of the most useful stuff on TMC!

    Jimmy, what would be your guess on when FSD will become viable?
     
  4. strangecosmos

    strangecosmos Non-Member

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    Thanks for weighing in jimmy. Do you have any sense of whether path planning — as opposed to control (i.e. actuation of the steering wheel, accelerator, and brakes) — is run by a neural network?

    By the way, if you publish your technical write-ups on Medium, you might be able to make some money doing it. And you could potentially reach a wider audience. That might make it worth your time. (Everyone can read 3 paywalled articles on Medium for free every month. You can also share a special link that gets past the paywall. So if you shared that link on TMC, everyone could read the article for free.)
     
  5. jimmy_d

    jimmy_d Deep Learning Dork

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    Thanks for the suggestion - I didn't know that stuff about Medium. The only compensation that I care about is feeling like the effort is useful to people. TMC has been good for that (thanks guys!), but the format is a bit restrictive, so I'll look at Medium next time and take your suggestion of sharing a like to it here.
     
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  6. strangecosmos

    strangecosmos Non-Member

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    There’s lots of deep learning stuff on Medium. You’ve probably already seen Karpathy’s posts on Medium, but there’s also Andrew Ng, plus pretty much everyone working on self-driving cars.
     
  7. Snuffysasa

    Snuffysasa Member

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    Good outline of the upcoming feature,

    Just one thing I think is slightly wrong.

    >6) It'll slow down and bring you to a gradual stop at the end of the exit

    It will slow down yes, and stop if there is a vehicle there. However, I do not think it will stop before a stop sign or red light, if it is the first vehicle in line.


    Yea no evidence that they are not doing path planning / control. But it is extremely unlikely they are, except for perhaps in some moonshot research projects.

    It is possible they have a NN or some other kind of machine learning for prediction, but I really doubt it at this point.

    And Also I usually do not consider prediction a subset of path planning. but I see why you may want to lump it in there.

    +1
     
  8. strangecosmos

    strangecosmos Non-Member

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    I guess you could categorize it as either perception or path planning. David Silver categorized it as part of path planning, so I went with that.
     
  9. dckiwi

    dckiwi Member

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    All based on an anonymous source, but this article from Electrek indicates that the latest dev build doesn't require user input to perform lane changes:

    "In the previous version of the update, ‘Drive On Nav’ automatically suggested lane changes based on the destination, but the driver needed to pull on the Autopilot stalk to initiate any lane change.

    Now it is not required anymore in the latest version of the feature."

    Tesla Version 9 update: getting closer to release, now fixes one of the biggest issues with Model 3 UI, and more
     
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  10. evp

    evp Nerd

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    Yeah, but I don't think the current incarnation of EAP actually uses these cameras. I suspect it will require the new "10 times faster" custom processor board to be able to handle the data rate of all the cameras on the car.
     
  11. S4WRXTTCS

    S4WRXTTCS Well-Known Member

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    What I'm really perplexed by is how much they're throwing into V9 right at the starting gate.

    To really do lane changes without user input requires knowledge of the cars on the side/behind.

    But, the latest version of the SW doesn't use the side rear facing cameras to detect cars. I expected Tesla to first release better side/blindspot monitoring BEFORE releasing the SW that does automatic lane changes.

    This V9.0 release seems absolutely massive in terms of features added.
     
  12. run-the-joules

    run-the-joules Active Member

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    We have no idea what will and won't be in there at public launch. Just because it's on an engineer car doesn't mean it'll be in the 9.0.0 release that goes to customers.
     
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  13. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Well-Known Member

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    • Informative x 2
  14. Snuffysasa

    Snuffysasa Member

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    really curious to try it out
     
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