Is there a contact information to plead with Tesla to please allow “dumb” cruise control? Because my 2022 MYP cannot go more than 10 seconds without phantom braking on my 2 lane undivided highway. It is dangerous as I almost was rear ended yesterday.
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“Dumb” cruise control?
- Thread starter JayhawkCRNA
- Start date
Folks should be reporting these problems to NHTSA so Tesla can’t ignore it
www.nhtsa.gov
Report a Safety Problem | NHTSA
File a complaint with NHTSA if you experienced a vehicle, tire, car seat or equipment safety problem that could be a safety defect.
Yeah it does it every time I pass a larger truck, bus etc. and really don’t like the lane keep assist bc it hugs the center line way too close for comfort.
My $30k Honda Odyssey minivan has a much better cruise and lane keep assist features.
My $30k Honda Odyssey minivan has a much better cruise and lane keep assist features.
damonbrodie
Member
I think its either problem with your specific vehicle or there is a difference between the models radar/no radar etc. I just drove 2500KMs in my MYLR (with radar) and most of it with cruise control enabled and didn't have a single phantom breaking incident - even when changing lanes or passing vehicles.
I don’t know if it is the 2 lane undivided road or what because I don’t commute on divided highways. It also happens in light of day and dark early mornings
Tesla knows. I'd still create a service request just so your issues are on record. You'll need to submit an NHTSA compliant though as well if you are experiencing issues to the level of being unsafe (we did). Tesla won't look at your car though. After providing them access to clips and bug reports on our car this is the reply we got. They didn't make an effort to follow up once I explained the data had been saved on the car. Some other members here confirmed they basically send out this form reply or similar to people.
Shortly after we decided to sell our May 2021 Y and bought a Mach E based on this experience. My wife was nearly rear ended to the point the following vehicle had to take the side of the road. Anyone driving a vision based 3/y on two lane highways is going to be in for a shock.
There is post after post on this forum regarding these issues, this place is so big they aren't easy to locate. Here is a 20 page one.
teslamotorsclub.com
If you have car with a radar this really isn't applicable to you unless you use FSB beta. My 2017 X basically doesn't behave this way.
Shortly after we decided to sell our May 2021 Y and bought a Mach E based on this experience. My wife was nearly rear ended to the point the following vehicle had to take the side of the road. Anyone driving a vision based 3/y on two lane highways is going to be in for a shock.
There is post after post on this forum regarding these issues, this place is so big they aren't easy to locate. Here is a 20 page one.
Phantom braking so bad I want to return my car
We live in Central Oregon and drive A LOT of rural 2 lane highways. Sometimes I feel like tesla programmers dont even know these roads exist. Phantom breaking is a huge issue on these roads. Below are the major issues. We have tried every configuration of functions being on or off and...
teslamotorsclub.com
If you have car with a radar this really isn't applicable to you unless you use FSB beta. My 2017 X basically doesn't behave this way.
Kind of feels like two too many to be honest. Just takes one to be on the wrong side of an accident.
Seems like a fairly simple software tweak to allow things like plain old cruise control to be selected (or, say ... defeatable regen for those of us in snowy/icy climates...etc).
I really don't understand the hesistancy on Tesla's part to do this sort of thing. There are real safety concerns to many, just let people choose.
Here's what I think they think: there will be no need for dumb cruise control once full self driving works perfectly. Let's work on making the automations work. When you're an optimistic person and think you can solve it "in 2 weeks", you see no need to add such futile options.
EDIT: Even worse, if you provide the option, people will start using it instead of staying in automatic. Once you make automatic work, plenty of people will have it off. You don't want that
EDIT: Even worse, if you provide the option, people will start using it instead of staying in automatic. Once you make automatic work, plenty of people will have it off. You don't want that
I've filed a complaint with NHTSA ... not that it will do any good, but I guess it can't hurt. I've got 500 miles on my 2022 M3LR and the number of times TACC (not autopilot) has just decided to brake for no reason is absurd. My kids even comment on it. This is on divided highways, and on 2-way city streets.
Traffic Aware Cruise Control should be just that, aware of the traffic ... not aware of painted lines, shadows, and who knows what else it's trying to "visualize." Just pay attn to the other cars on the road. Autopilot should engage some of those other "smarts" - and those have their own set of problems.
Traffic Aware Cruise Control should be just that, aware of the traffic ... not aware of painted lines, shadows, and who knows what else it's trying to "visualize." Just pay attn to the other cars on the road. Autopilot should engage some of those other "smarts" - and those have their own set of problems.
How do you "visualize" traffic and not everything else with cameras and AI? Without radar, that is the only thing your car can do to "infer" what may or may not be another car in your lane, next to you or behind you.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
But you can choose to ignore a lot of stimuli. However, Tesla's systems care about a lot of things, even not immediately in the lane (they added even more stuff recently, like emergency lights, also responding to cars partially in lane). A lot of systems work "better" because they completely ignore anything other than the target car they are following (or any moving car in its path). I'm pretty sure if Tesla's system was tuned like those, the phantom braking would be way less.
But it is also for "safety" that they respond to that stimuli, because there have been a bunch of high publicized accidents involving AP where largely Tesla was blamed for the system not responding to certain stimuli.
I don't think NHTSA will do much. Phantom braking is expected behavior in ACC systems, even if it may be more or less prevalent depending on which system. Tweeting Elon may be more effective to force a "dumb" cruise control, but I think there needs to be a more concentrated effort. Like maybe a bunch of people banding together, either have a mass of the similar tweets at him at the same time so he can't ignore it (although if they were exactly the same, they may be seen as bots), or persistent daily tweets (like the waypoint guy that got Elon to change his mind and finally add waypoints).
Here's the thing: it is safer to brake for no reason than to continue on and have an accident. In doubt, the car would (and I argue it should) choose to brake. Every time the car doesn't brake and gets into an accident, media is all over it, Tesla gets blamed, people want to sue them. And for good reason, lives are at stake. Until you can be 100% sure that a situation is safe, the best course of action is to slow down. Since the car isn't perfect, it sometimes brakes for no reason. As humans we sometimes fail to recognize those situations, or choose to continue on, and we are sometimes wrong and we end up in accidents.
Don't get me wrong here, I would prefer a perfect system that never applies the brakes unnecessarily. It makes me mad every time it happens. I'm merely trying to explain why it does so, and why it's the least bad course of action.
As for people "almost hitting us from behind"... I completely understand, and I always try to prevent that too. However, if it happens they are systematically responsible legally. They MUST make sure they are at a safe distance whatever happens in front. I don't want to get hit either but on top of this legal aspect, (I think) there's less risk of fatal injuries if you are hit from behind than if you have a frontal collision with a car coming in the other direction.
So, I don't think we have much in terms of weight if we try to push on Tesla saying these braking events are a danger for safety.
Don't get me wrong here, I would prefer a perfect system that never applies the brakes unnecessarily. It makes me mad every time it happens. I'm merely trying to explain why it does so, and why it's the least bad course of action.
As for people "almost hitting us from behind"... I completely understand, and I always try to prevent that too. However, if it happens they are systematically responsible legally. They MUST make sure they are at a safe distance whatever happens in front. I don't want to get hit either but on top of this legal aspect, (I think) there's less risk of fatal injuries if you are hit from behind than if you have a frontal collision with a car coming in the other direction.
So, I don't think we have much in terms of weight if we try to push on Tesla saying these braking events are a danger for safety.
Auto pilot is not cruise control.
1. Better to brake than not brake. I don't trust self driving or full auto pilot so this features doesn't impact me. I prefer to drive myself and only use auto pilot off and on during long highways.
2. If the car behind you hits you, that is THEIR fault. They're too close.
This post is 100% on point. Rational. Common sense thinking.
1. Better to brake than not brake. I don't trust self driving or full auto pilot so this features doesn't impact me. I prefer to drive myself and only use auto pilot off and on during long highways.
2. If the car behind you hits you, that is THEIR fault. They're too close.
I have reported to NHTSA, hopefully many others do too
It's unreal how unrefined a 50k+ car is with it's adaptive cruise control system can be(heck even AP has become annoying useless with phantom brake events since switching over to visual only from radar+vision) compared to adaptive cruise control of my 2017 rav4
Everything that I bought the MY (other than the speed/power) is near unusable or annoyingly unusable, I'm thinking I might just sell it as it's appreciated in price and get my money+a little more back from the next sucker
Maybe buy again 2+ years down the road when Tesla truly fixes heat pump and AP/TACC issues (and inflation comes under control again and the car prices drop back down to 2020 price range)
It's unreal how unrefined a 50k+ car is with it's adaptive cruise control system can be(heck even AP has become annoying useless with phantom brake events since switching over to visual only from radar+vision) compared to adaptive cruise control of my 2017 rav4
Everything that I bought the MY (other than the speed/power) is near unusable or annoyingly unusable, I'm thinking I might just sell it as it's appreciated in price and get my money+a little more back from the next sucker
Maybe buy again 2+ years down the road when Tesla truly fixes heat pump and AP/TACC issues (and inflation comes under control again and the car prices drop back down to 2020 price range)
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True. But if you're on a highway and phantom braking hits hard, and it's a semi that's driving behind you "too close", that's not much comfort.
I am not even sure why folks argue about this and make excuses for it. Add an option for a dumb cruise control until you can at least get it working to the point of a 2017 Rav4 like the above poster mentioned, or really, just about every other car on the road that has an adaptive/auto cruise control feature.
JustJohn
Member
Excuses aside, the cruise control doesn't work.
Rename it if you like, it still doesn't work.
Argue about the safety merits of how it does act when employed and a rational person should get to the same conclusion: It doesn't work.
I bought my car for the driveline technology and I would really prefer to use the cruise control, especially on secondary roads to keep myself from speeding. I don't because the cruise control (autopilot or whatever else you'd like to call it) does not work.
Rename it if you like, it still doesn't work.
Argue about the safety merits of how it does act when employed and a rational person should get to the same conclusion: It doesn't work.
I bought my car for the driveline technology and I would really prefer to use the cruise control, especially on secondary roads to keep myself from speeding. I don't because the cruise control (autopilot or whatever else you'd like to call it) does not work.
I. think your correct in stating that if a car is to close its their fault. However, going from 70mph to 30 mph for no reason is unacceptable. You know and I know most drivers are closer than we would like. What would happen if the person behind you decided to sue you for braking for no reason and causing the accident and requesting the data from Tesla. Just saying that TESLA should not allow the car to have a system operate with issues that have gotten a lot of complaints on.
Silicon Desert
Well-Known Member
You say it is dangerous in your first post, yet continue to use it. Help me understand the logic behind that decision. Maybe I am just misunderstanding what you are saying.
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