Interesting read from a Journalist on his reasons to cancel his reservation
Why I'm Ditching My Tesla Model 3 Reservation
Why I'm Ditching My Tesla Model 3 Reservation
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“Why I’m ditching my model 3 reservation” article
- Thread starter Keith909man
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dhrivnak
Active Member
Not really that interesting to me. He is worried he would likely lose the Federal Tax Credit. With over 150,000 Tesla's now sold in the USA, 500,000 Model 3 reservation, the tax credit phasing out after 200,000 cars, it does not take high math to figure out few people will be able to claim the tax credit. I also think he is being disingenuous on the price estimating unless he spends north of $60,000 he will not get an early car. That is a lot of options and most of those options are not even available to the early buyers.
He makes some interesting arguments but the devil is in the details (of which he gets many of them wrong).
Edit - he goes on to correct some of them later on, but the first half of the article is very disingenuous.
When I was young and wanted to be a journalist, my life goal was to report for cheatsheet.com /s
The article was an interesting read. I'm sure his concerns (reliability, etc.) are shared by many others.
Tam
Well-Known Member
It would be interesting if there are something new.
It's tiresome to hear same old complaints:
"1. Tesla’s game is tiresome"
The author seems to suggest that Tesla Model 3 projected production has been disappointing.
Yes, it is, but what is new in Tesla since Roadster, Model S, Model X and now Model 3.
Not new!
"2. There is no Model 3 timetable"
Just like past timetables for Roadster, Model S, Model X, timetable for Model 3 has been there but the question is do owners have patience for the delays.
Yawn. What's new?
"3. Reliability could be terrible"
There have been early production issues in the past for Roadster, Model S, Model X so it's a safe bet that Model 3 should experience issues as well.
That doesn't mean it's terrible. I got one of the earlier Model S in 2012 and it has not been terrible. It has been great!
"4. Kiss the $7,500 goodbye?"
It's only good for the first 200,000 EV cars sold for each company but that doesn't prevent 400,000 depositors at all.
With new GOP tax plans, that could be repealed even before the limit reached in future!
Even in the perfect world, 200,000 get it out of 400,000 depositors. The result will still be the same: Most will not get the credit as time goes on.
Not news!
"5. Breaking down the tax credit schedule"
Same problem as above.
"6. Tesla’s accommodation for the 1%"
That's what its plan has always been: Sell the most expensive EV first to finance for cheaper ones.
There is no surprise there!
"7. The used EV market offers much better deals"
Used cars are cheaper than new.
That's not news!
"8. All risk, no clear reward"
"I don’t want to worry about how much it may or may not cost"
Base model costs $35,000 without any other factors. It's very simple if the author doesn't want to pay more: Don't change the car's color which will cost another $1,000, don't guess whether GOP tax plans will preserve $7,500 tax credit...
"whether it will have glitches"
Yes, it's a risk but I have been fine with my earlier 2012 Model S and current 2017 Model X.
"what month/year"
That's not news!
I placed my deposit for my Model S and didn't know when I would get it until 3 years and 9 months later.
"I have enough to worry about in my life, and I don’t need a car adding stress to my situation."
I myself think getting a Tesla is a great reward that is worthy of all those 8 issues the author has complained above!
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Austindude
Member
While everything said in the article may be true, all of it with the exception of the new tax code has been knowledge and history that has been available for many months (and some issues, like the reliability issues, for years). So he is right, with that in mind he should cancel his reservation asap! I'm guessing he will be disappointed with his model 3 whenever it is delivered (and maybe any other Tesla vehicle). As for me, I make no assumptions exactly when the car will be available and in the mean time if an appropriately equipped model S can be found at the right price I might even buy it, but if I do I will still probably keep my Model 3 reservation.
Not being able to lease, premature loss of the full federal tax credit, and reliability are all at the forefront of my concerns with the Model 3.
Still trying to remain optimistic that things will go swimmingly from here on out, but not being able to lease a brand new, first gen sexy mobile computer that can also be driven is a downer. Premature demise of the tax credit will totally eliminate the 3 as a possibility for us, and any significant reliability issues will have my wife switching out the 3 for a Honda immediately...
Still trying to remain optimistic that things will go swimmingly from here on out, but not being able to lease a brand new, first gen sexy mobile computer that can also be driven is a downer. Premature demise of the tax credit will totally eliminate the 3 as a possibility for us, and any significant reliability issues will have my wife switching out the 3 for a Honda immediately...
I wrote a similar essay concerning why I'm not getting an iPhone X.
You will find the article on www.wastedbandwidth.org, but the here is a cut and paste of the article:
Seriously, nothing in there is new concerning the downside to ordering a Model 3.
But what he forgot is very telling.
1) He compares it to a Nissan Leaf. Nope. Anyone who wants a Leaf already has one. There is not a waiting list.
2) The cheapest RWD performance EV (sub 6 sec) is $75,200. Cars like the Leaf, i3, Bolt, etc, might be cheaper, but performance and range is lower.
3) Even without the Federal Credit, $36,000 is still cheap for a 200+ mile EV with brisk performance.
4) The Model 3 LR initial release cars are a similar bargain. $50k for 300+ miles, even better performance, and more luxury features. Can you match it at $57,500? No.
You will find the article on www.wastedbandwidth.org, but the here is a cut and paste of the article:
Seriously, nothing in there is new concerning the downside to ordering a Model 3.
But what he forgot is very telling.
1) He compares it to a Nissan Leaf. Nope. Anyone who wants a Leaf already has one. There is not a waiting list.
2) The cheapest RWD performance EV (sub 6 sec) is $75,200. Cars like the Leaf, i3, Bolt, etc, might be cheaper, but performance and range is lower.
3) Even without the Federal Credit, $36,000 is still cheap for a 200+ mile EV with brisk performance.
4) The Model 3 LR initial release cars are a similar bargain. $50k for 300+ miles, even better performance, and more luxury features. Can you match it at $57,500? No.
Zaphod
Galaxy President (former)
His info: "Eric Schaal is a graduate of New York University, where he received a B.A. in English Literature and Writing. He has covered sports and the auto industry for The Cheat Sheet since 2013. A lifelong baseball fan with a passion for environmental causes, Eric loves exploring the latest in green vehicles and the drama of MLB pennant races. Follow him on Twitter @EricSchaalNY."
Quite the authoritative figure no doubt...
Guess they get paid per click...
Quite the authoritative figure no doubt...
Guess they get paid per click...
T34ME
Active Member
I'm going to laugh my burro off when Congress leaves in the Tax Credit, ramp is up to speed, leases are available as soon as the cars go public, and $TSLA goes north of $500 per share. He has cancelled his reservation with no way to get it back. He wants a Leaf with its battery problems? My daughter has a 500e which is okay to get back and forth to work and the grocery store and that is about all. He can't even get the phase out of the tax credit correct. Lame article and a classic example of FUD, and don't bother to troll me with "fanboy" because I admit I am a "complete enthusiast." The model 3 has already changed the automotive world forever and will continue to do so in the future.
dhanson865
Well-Known Member
You really need to learn how the tax credit phases out. What you said there is NOT true.
Tesla can sell 2 quarters worth of cars after they hit 200,000. If they sell 50,000 in that time or 500,000 in that time all of them get the full tax credit. S, X, 3 all of the ones sold in the 2 quarters get full credit, then all the S, X, 3 in the next two quarters get 1/2 credit, then in the next two quarters all the S, X, 3 get a 1/4 the credit.
The key concept is 200,000 US cars sold is the trigger not the amount of cars that get the credit. There is no limit to how many cars that can get the full tax credit other than how many cars Tesla can deliver in a 6 month period.
Whatever number that is, it is in addition to the 200,000 they sold prior to that. So if they produce 50,000 in 6 months then 250,000 teslas got the full credit (mostly Model S, lesser amount Model X, and even less Model 3). If they produce 500,000 in 6 months then the total is 700,000 Teslas that got the full credit (Mostly Model 3, with a lesser number of Model S, and the least being Model X).
The key to Model 3 reservation holders is how many can be delivered in a 6 month window. Not directly related to the number 2 or the number 0 no matter how many times you see that number tossed around.
If you are going to try and debunk FUD at least do so with correct information.
Does anyone know about the tax credit in Ontario, Canada? I would like to take advantage of the $14,000 credit, but worry about the delay in receiving my car.
Still boggles my mind how Tesla has not stated anything publicly about the House's attempt at killing the EV tax credit prematurely.
Both Nissan and GM have stated they will work to preserve the credit....where is Tesla's voice?
"1. Tesla’s game is tiresome
You don’t need to follow Tesla too closely to grow tired of the routine."
Uhm, this is not a comedy sketch, it is a complicated mass manufacturing process. Large manufacturers have to delay or recall their products all the time. The reason why it's tiresome to YOU is because you care more about this product and allowed yourself to maintain unrealistic expectations. The line of "over promise and under deliver" is not correct -- it's more like "fulfills promises and eventually delivers." If that's frustrating for you, fine, but it shouldn't be surprising at this point.
"2. There is no Model 3 timetable"
Of course there is a timetable, but it changes with circumstances. Yes they set aggressive timelines, it's what they do. They often don't hit them, but they do the best they can. Again, shouldn't be a surprise. This argument of "I only want this highly desirable product if you can deliver it within a very specific time window" sounds more like immaturity than a logical objection. Yes, waiting sucks. Get over it. It's actually far sooner than they were originally thinking they could do it.
"By then, no one knows if Tesla tax credits will still be on the table."
They aren't Tesla tax credits, they are federal EV tax credits. And you are correct, no one knows if they will be around. The federal government could eliminate the program tomorrow, or extend it indefinitely. Anyone buying an electric car should assume they won't get it at this point, and if you do it's a nice bonus. Basing future product purchase decisions based upon an uncertain government rebate program is not a good way to go about purchasing the second most expensive things you're like to ever own after your home.
"3. Reliability could be terrible"
There is nothing to suggest this will be the case, it's FUD-spreading. Model 3 was specifically designed for mass production -- very different than Model X.
"4. Kiss the $7,500 goodbye?"
Didn't he already cover this once? Get mad at the feds if you want, Tesla cannot control federal tax code.
"5. Breaking down the tax credit schedule"
Why is this yet another separate section? Half this article is him complaining about the federal EV tax credit program....
"6. Tesla’s accommodation for the 1%
To be fair, Tesla was clear it would produce the most expensive version of Model 3 first to finance the production of the rest."
Stop. That is simply wrong on a number of levels. For one, a $50k car is not for the "1 percent" or there wouldn't be a massive luxury car market. For two, this will NOT be the most expensive Model 3, there will be AWD and performance models later. For three, these cars went to employees of Tesla, so you wouldn't have gotten one anyway irrespective of battery or interior. Four, they decided on a one-size-fits-all option package for the initial deliveries to simplify the ramp up of production. These are the earliest of the early adopters, and just like Model S and Model X, probably are going to want some premium upgrades. Tesla came up with a set of options to make as many folks happy as they could. Fifth, would you REALLY want to be one of the first handful of owners as they work out the kinks in both hardware and software?
"7. The used EV market offers much better deals"
There is nothing remotely comparable to the Model 3 in terms of performance, range, and styling in the EV market. Between the constant discussion of tax credits and now the used car market, I'm starting to think the author can't really afford a new car. So he probably shouldn't get one.
"8. All risk, no clear reward"
Huh? What is your risk? $1,000 refundable dollars? lol.
The reward, on the other hand, is absolutely clear.
You don’t need to follow Tesla too closely to grow tired of the routine."
Uhm, this is not a comedy sketch, it is a complicated mass manufacturing process. Large manufacturers have to delay or recall their products all the time. The reason why it's tiresome to YOU is because you care more about this product and allowed yourself to maintain unrealistic expectations. The line of "over promise and under deliver" is not correct -- it's more like "fulfills promises and eventually delivers." If that's frustrating for you, fine, but it shouldn't be surprising at this point.
"2. There is no Model 3 timetable"
Of course there is a timetable, but it changes with circumstances. Yes they set aggressive timelines, it's what they do. They often don't hit them, but they do the best they can. Again, shouldn't be a surprise. This argument of "I only want this highly desirable product if you can deliver it within a very specific time window" sounds more like immaturity than a logical objection. Yes, waiting sucks. Get over it. It's actually far sooner than they were originally thinking they could do it.
"By then, no one knows if Tesla tax credits will still be on the table."
They aren't Tesla tax credits, they are federal EV tax credits. And you are correct, no one knows if they will be around. The federal government could eliminate the program tomorrow, or extend it indefinitely. Anyone buying an electric car should assume they won't get it at this point, and if you do it's a nice bonus. Basing future product purchase decisions based upon an uncertain government rebate program is not a good way to go about purchasing the second most expensive things you're like to ever own after your home.
"3. Reliability could be terrible"
There is nothing to suggest this will be the case, it's FUD-spreading. Model 3 was specifically designed for mass production -- very different than Model X.
"4. Kiss the $7,500 goodbye?"
Didn't he already cover this once? Get mad at the feds if you want, Tesla cannot control federal tax code.
"5. Breaking down the tax credit schedule"
Why is this yet another separate section? Half this article is him complaining about the federal EV tax credit program....
"6. Tesla’s accommodation for the 1%
To be fair, Tesla was clear it would produce the most expensive version of Model 3 first to finance the production of the rest."
Stop. That is simply wrong on a number of levels. For one, a $50k car is not for the "1 percent" or there wouldn't be a massive luxury car market. For two, this will NOT be the most expensive Model 3, there will be AWD and performance models later. For three, these cars went to employees of Tesla, so you wouldn't have gotten one anyway irrespective of battery or interior. Four, they decided on a one-size-fits-all option package for the initial deliveries to simplify the ramp up of production. These are the earliest of the early adopters, and just like Model S and Model X, probably are going to want some premium upgrades. Tesla came up with a set of options to make as many folks happy as they could. Fifth, would you REALLY want to be one of the first handful of owners as they work out the kinks in both hardware and software?
"7. The used EV market offers much better deals"
There is nothing remotely comparable to the Model 3 in terms of performance, range, and styling in the EV market. Between the constant discussion of tax credits and now the used car market, I'm starting to think the author can't really afford a new car. So he probably shouldn't get one.
"8. All risk, no clear reward"
Huh? What is your risk? $1,000 refundable dollars? lol.
The reward, on the other hand, is absolutely clear.
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T34ME
Active Member
IN MY OPINION, Tesla would like to see the tax credit go away. This would give them a huge $7,500 advantage over those newcomers into the EV market. Nissan Leaf and GM Bolt are not their competition. Their competition is BMW, Audi, and Porsche concept EVs. If Tesla uses up their EV tax credit allotment in the next 12 to 18 months, the other makers would still have as much as a $7,500 advantage for years to come if the credit remains in place. And in reality, the Federal Tax Credit has achieved its desired results, - acceptance of the EV concept as a mainstream means of personal transportation. To encourage further adoption of the EV concept, the Feds could eliminate the EV tax credit and tax ICE cars a surcharge (maybe $7,500 each) for cleaning up the environment as a result of their pollution. i'm sure this will elicit some "disagrees" but it is worth it!
Tam
Well-Known Member
No doubt that it's possible that a majority of the total 400,000 depositors can get Federal Tax credit in the short run but still, what I mean is: in the long run, "Most will not get the credit as time goes on."
"Most" here is "as time goes on," there will be millions produced, not just thousands. And those millions in future will not be qualified for current law subsidy.
Its available. However we have a provincial election next spring. If the liberals win the plan should survive. If they lose? Anyones guess. I'm budgeting for the M3 without it. If I get it, bonus.
P.S. Its not a credit. It's a cheque for $14,000 plus up to $1000 for your electrical upgrade. Takes about 6 months after purchase to get it. As well I'm not interested in an S or X.
Suggest here:
Canada
