When those idling start seeing their 40 cent per minute idle fee accrual, this should start changing. But it already sounds like it was an improvement if there wasn't a line.
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$0.40/hour idling fee not punitive enough
- Thread starter sorka
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- Tesla Inc.
When those idling start seeing their 40 cent per minute idle fee accrual, this should start changing. But it already sounds like it was an improvement if there wasn't a line.
Khatsalano
Member
$0.40 per minute isn't punitive enough. Plus you know what's going to happen during the first service visit ... it'll be "waived" anyway for goodwill. The policy should have been to have a current credit card on file to use SCs and the idle charges hit immediately at $1.00 or more per minute.
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dhcp
Member
100% agree. I'd give the 10-minute window but that's where it ends. You can't use the supercharger unless you have a CC on file and you are billed immediately if you camp out at a charger. If someone shows up for service and there is a $500 bill for overcharging they are going to have a fit and claim they knew nothing about it (insert goodwill wave here). If they get nicked $10 the first time they are going to take notice and it won't happen again, or at least they are on notice.
I follow the talk on the San Mateo SC because it's near home and people often say that cars are (still) camped out there the whole time they charge with nobody in them and nobody comes back the entire time. A little pain right away would stop that.
debuggr
Member
Forgive me if this is covered elsewhere, but why did Tesla stop putting the $0.40/hr warnings on push notifications? I got them a couple times immediately after the policy went into effect, but not the past few times at the SC. I never leave the car there when it's not charging, but I thought it was a good idea to remind people they'll be paying if they don't move.
FYI, I did not start this thread. The first post above was moved from the San Mateo supercharger thread so now it's completely out of context.
aesculus
Still Trying to Figure This All Out
Thanks for clarifying this. I was trying to figure out what posts I had missed in the thread.
Andyw2100
Well-Known Member
I never supercharge, so I don't know if this could be it or not, but could it be that the times you did not receive the warnings the superchargers were fairly unoccupied? Tesla did modify the policy after it came out such that the charges would not apply if the superchargers were not busy at the time.
$.40/hour is definitely not punitive enough.
But, it's $.40/min and we don't really know how effective it is.
When we pull into a supercharger we have no idea how long those cars have been charging for. Tesla is the only ones who know if it's punitive enough. They have all the data on it.
But, it's $.40/min and we don't really know how effective it is.
When we pull into a supercharger we have no idea how long those cars have been charging for. Tesla is the only ones who know if it's punitive enough. They have all the data on it.
aesculus
Still Trying to Figure This All Out
The thing is that if I was charging for traveling, it would most likely be for about 1/2 hour. 45 minutes max (unless I had to range charge which is about twice a year). If I wanted to tie up a stall for a few hours, I would just set my SOC to 100%. In fact I tried this once (nobody else was at the chargers) and even after 2 hours I was still at 99%. I never did get it to go to 100% even after 2 1/2 hours.
But this has been brought up by others before as a way to probably overcome this fine for anything other than parking the car with no intention of moving it for many hours, which I guess has happened at a few SoCal chargers.
But this has been brought up by others before as a way to probably overcome this fine for anything other than parking the car with no intention of moving it for many hours, which I guess has happened at a few SoCal chargers.
So, speculation time guys, most seem to agree $0.40 is nowhere near punitive enough to force someone to move a car that is not so inclined (in fact, I suggested $10/min in as a remedy the other thread - but of course mostly as a talking point instead literal). $0.40, while punitive as it is ~double the normal price, it is close enough a parking fee that some people will simply see it as a price.
However, here's the speculation: Tesla knows full well some people will also get idle charges by accident, because the estimates the car gives are not accurate, estimating stall sharing, taper etc. is hard/impossible and the mobile app notifications are unreliable and not used by all. So perhaps they chose a number that people who become "victims" of it will still find it palatable to pay up for an offense they never intended to commit. In this case $0.40 would make sense. A compromise that takes into account some collateral damage, if you will.
Estimating the end of Supercharging is notoriously difficult and Tesla must know this, if they keep on insisting such a small grace as 5 min. Keeping the cost at a level that might make people irritated but still get them to pay up might be intentional. Pushing this up will quickly make these unintended consequences too harsh for that to happen.
Thoughts?
p.s. I support the credit card on file absolutely. The service center charge accumulation is a terrible idea.
However, here's the speculation: Tesla knows full well some people will also get idle charges by accident, because the estimates the car gives are not accurate, estimating stall sharing, taper etc. is hard/impossible and the mobile app notifications are unreliable and not used by all. So perhaps they chose a number that people who become "victims" of it will still find it palatable to pay up for an offense they never intended to commit. In this case $0.40 would make sense. A compromise that takes into account some collateral damage, if you will.
Estimating the end of Supercharging is notoriously difficult and Tesla must know this, if they keep on insisting such a small grace as 5 min. Keeping the cost at a level that might make people irritated but still get them to pay up might be intentional. Pushing this up will quickly make these unintended consequences too harsh for that to happen.
Thoughts?
p.s. I support the credit card on file absolutely. The service center charge accumulation is a terrible idea.
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jeffro01
Active Member
I've been saying this from the start... Nowhere near high enough... Consider the income levels of those who own these cars, do you really think $0.40 a minute is going to sway anyone?
It's like the carpool lane violation fees... I know plenty of people like me who do the math on them to see whether it's worth it to get one vs the time saved commuting and due to their relatively low penalties, yes it's worth it so they drive solo...
Jeff
It's like the carpool lane violation fees... I know plenty of people like me who do the math on them to see whether it's worth it to get one vs the time saved commuting and due to their relatively low penalties, yes it's worth it so they drive solo...
Jeff
shrspeedblade
Rideshare Monkey
Isn't it more expensive just to park a car in a parking garage most places?
The fees should definitely exceed the normal cost of parking a regular car in most cities- wouldn't it be said if an owner camped there because it's the lower cost parking option!
The fees should definitely exceed the normal cost of parking a regular car in most cities- wouldn't it be said if an owner camped there because it's the lower cost parking option!
I drove past a supercharger a couple of days ago and saw an S parked and charging. Drove by again a few hours later and the car was still there. The only difference was it was no long plugged in. Still occupying a space, just not plugged in. Grumble...
Was the driver in the car perhaps just getting ready to leave? Wish you could snap a picture of that and post to elon on Twitter so he could see how some are gaming the system. Sitting in a spot not charging while others are waiting is a good way to get keyed.
cpa
Active Member
Yes, I think that forty cents per minute is low for the entire time a car is accruing idle charges. There will be times when a person just cannot return on time to their car within the five minute grace period. We have discussed situations where it was very inconvenient for a driver to return promptly. I would propose a simple, two-tiered system whereby the first 15 minutes are assessed at forty cents. After 15 minutes the rate jumps to $1.00 per minute. That way, a person who returns after one hour is hit with $51 in late fees. This might be enough to get the person's attention while not penalizing someone heavily who returns 8-12 minutes late because the infant needed another nappy change or the check was slow in arriving.
Tesla also needs to have a "Supercharging" app apart from the generic Tesla app. The Supercharger app would have the critical pieces of information we need to determine when late fees start to accrue. The app should also show at a glance the number of occupied stalls so that a driver can see that a vacant charger upon plugging in suddenly becomes in high demand twenty minutes later. Tesla should notify us via text in addition to the pop-up notice too.
Finally, the charges need to be assessed immediately on one's credit card. Charges under $1 should be waived, effectively extending this "grace period" to seven minutes.
Tesla also needs to have a "Supercharging" app apart from the generic Tesla app. The Supercharger app would have the critical pieces of information we need to determine when late fees start to accrue. The app should also show at a glance the number of occupied stalls so that a driver can see that a vacant charger upon plugging in suddenly becomes in high demand twenty minutes later. Tesla should notify us via text in addition to the pop-up notice too.
Finally, the charges need to be assessed immediately on one's credit card. Charges under $1 should be waived, effectively extending this "grace period" to seven minutes.
Nobody in the car. The supercharger is in a hotel parking lot so I'm guessing the driver was staying there. I've seen this a number of times before but this is the first where they unplugged the car and left it there.
Fortunately the site does not get a lot of use. 6 stalls and in the 2 years since it's been installed I've never seen more than 2 cars using it at any one time. So at least no one was left waiting.
That seems so crazy. So the person walked all the way back to their car to unplug it, but couldn't manage to get in it and move it? Was the rest of the parking lot full?
NikeWings
Active Member
I never got a push notification but I notice now that when I hit a specifc SC icon on NAV, it lists amenities and has the $.40 warning on the screen. So maybe its to ensure that everyone, including non-mobile phone users, are forewarned vs just push notifications. It's also an easy segue to flashing messages (maybe even an accept terms button
) on the screen upon arrival/plug.Similar threads
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