0 miles rated range

[Max*]

Tesla's trip planner targets 20% minimum charge and will send you to a supercharger if your destination can't be reached with 20% or more left.

Are you sure it still does that?

I agree that Tesla's trip planner did that about 5 months ago when I got my car. I could have sworn that one of the updates shortly after that (let's say 4 months ago), changed the 20% number to 7% (right between yellow and red).

 

[benjiejr]

I could have sworn that one of the updates shortly after that (let's say 4 months ago), changed the 20% number to 7% (right between yellow and red).

This is also my experience over the last couple months.

 

[FlasherZ]

This is also my experience over the last couple months.

Ok, I could be wrong - last time I took a road trip was a number of months ago. I'll be finding out shortly (end of this month). Thanks for the tip!

 

[ddimit]

This is also my experience over the last couple months.

Yes once your drop below 8% you now get the warning

 

[widodh]

Is that a reliable indicator? I have no personal experience but I seem to recall the car shutting down on folks with several miles remaining and the power meter limiter > 100 kW.

Well, I ran my S down to -10km a few months ago, still had 60kW of power left.

I still want to try this again with maybe a gennie in the back or something.

 

[dsm363]

That's good to know. Thankfully we were very close to home so I was just going to walk home and grab the other car and chain to tow it home if need be but no worries we don't plan on doing that again.

I don't think Tesla recommends towing the car this way. Flatbed only I believe.

 

[apacheguy]

Well, I ran my S down to -10km a few months ago, still had 60kW of power left.

I still want to try this again with maybe a gennie in the back or something.

Ok. Good to know.

So why do some cars have no buffer and yet others do? Don't give me the whole algo calibration error thing. As evidenced by the OP, his range calibration didn't budge even after driving it past 0 and charging back up.

 

[FlasherZ]

Ok. Good to know.

So why do some cars have no buffer and yet others do? Don't give me the whole algo calibration error thing. As evidenced by the OP, his range calibration didn't budge even after driving it past 0 and charging back up.

I don't think anyone knows. I don't have an answer.

Perhaps a degraded/dead cell or two that affect string voltages, versus packs that have no "dead pixels"?

I think this question ranks right up there with why I haven't seen (much) rated-range degradation after 47,000+ miles and nearly 2 years on my replacement pack, compared to the original rev A pack that saw degradation, charging to 90% @ 228ish miles. You can't say that I baby my pack - it gets range-charged frequently and will sometimes sit at 100% for a day (if I've forgotten to set it back to 90%), supercharged occasionally (but not regularly), always charged at 80A except while on-road, gets driven down to 5% or so occasionally, and my approach is very "don't care". The odds shouldn't be in my favor here - but the car still charges to roughly the same as when the pack was installed (linear regression estimates ~1.5 miles per year). Yet others with newer cars show ranges well under mine, and no amount of rebalancing and/or using the entire width of the pack restores any.

It points toward wk's theory that there's a bit of headroom the car can absorb and hides from the user, but we haven't established that with any firm and predictable evidence.

 

[pedriscoll]

Some of you are very daring. I am reluctant to get below 20 miles rated range.

 

[brantse]

I don't think anyone knows. I don't have an answer.

Perhaps a degraded/dead cell or two that affect string voltages, versus packs that have no "dead pixels"?

I think this question ranks right up there with why I haven't seen (much) rated-range degradation after 47,000+ miles and nearly 2 years on my replacement pack, compared to the original rev A pack that saw degradation, charging to 90% @ 228ish miles. You can't say that I baby my pack - it gets range-charged frequently and will sometimes sit at 100% for a day (if I've forgotten to set it back to 90%), supercharged occasionally (but not regularly), always charged at 80A except while on-road, gets driven down to 5% or so occasionally, and my approach is very "don't care". The odds shouldn't be in my favor here - but the car still charges to roughly the same as when the pack was installed (linear regression estimates ~1.5 miles per year). Yet others with newer cars show ranges well under mine, and no amount of rebalancing and/or using the entire width of the pack restores any.

It points toward wk's theory that there's a bit of headroom the car can absorb and hides from the user, but we haven't established that with any firm and predictable evidence.

Very interesting. Have you changed your charging habits at all since the original battery was replaced? I know this is the $64k question, and everybody has different opinions and anecdotal data points, but do YOU think that charging to 90% is better in the long run than charging to something lower?

 

[apacheguy]

I don't think anyone knows. I don't have an answer.


Perhaps a degraded/dead cell or two that affect string voltages, versus packs that have no "dead pixels"?


I think this question ranks right up there with why I haven't seen (much) rated-range degradation after 47,000+ miles and nearly 2 years on my replacement pack, compared to the original rev A pack that saw degradation, charging to 90% @ 228ish miles. You can't say that I baby my pack - it gets range-charged frequently and will sometimes sit at 100% for a day (if I've forgotten to set it back to 90%), supercharged occasionally (but not regularly), always charged at 80A except while on-road, gets driven down to 5% or so occasionally, and my approach is very "don't care". The odds shouldn't be in my favor here - but the car still charges to roughly the same as when the pack was installed (linear regression estimates ~1.5 miles per year). Yet others with newer cars show ranges well under mine, and no amount of rebalancing and/or using the entire width of the pack restores any.


It points toward wk's theory that there's a bit of headroom the car can absorb and hides from the user, but we haven't established that with any firm and predictable evidence.

Yeah, I would love to compare diag screens with your car to try to get to the bottom if this. Come on Tesla, give us read-only access. That's all I ask.

Very interesting. Have you changed your charging habits at all since the original battery was replaced? I know this is the $64k question, and everybody has different opinions and anecdotal data points, but do YOU think that charging to 90% is better in the long run than charging to something lower?

Evidence from repeated cycling of Tesla's cells suggest 90% is not better:

Time spent at high and low SoC definitely has an impact. But the cycling itself, at any point in the cycle, has a discernible effect on the capacity of the cell as electrolyte slowly gets lost during the chemical process. This is pretty constant across the inner SoC range, and slightly more accelerated near the ends. My one test I've had running has been simulating "driving" by discharging for a bit, then charging (regen) for a moment, then a ramp up again followed by a level discharge rate, etc. It had about 4% degradation at what I would estimate would be 40,000 miles of "driving." (10% to 90% SoC range)

 

[FlasherZ]

Very interesting. Have you changed your charging habits at all since the original battery was replaced? I know this is the $64k question, and everybody has different opinions and anecdotal data points, but do YOU think that charging to 90% is better in the long run than charging to something lower?

No charging habit changes.

I don't know, and really I don't want to know. I don't want to obsess over having to pull the plug and drive within 5 seconds of reaching 100% "charge complete", and I don't want to have to think about where I plan to drive tomorrow and set the charge meter based upon how much I need.

So if one is willing to be obsessive, then perhaps it's going to give them peace of mind that they're doing everything they can to minimize their loss (based on the theory of degradation in what we know about Li-Ion battery chemistry). I figure the difference between being obsessive and being lazy (and leaving it at 90%, 80A, etc. all the time) is so small I don't want to worry about it.

 

[Lex]

I figure the difference between being obsessive and being lazy (and leaving it at 90%, 80A, etc. all the time) is so small I don't want to worry about it.

Which is Tesla's intent... so I'm on board with that too (except I only charge at 32A usually).

 

[Max*]

Make that 3 of us.

 

[Electricfan]

I wish I had a time machine so I could look ahead 10 years and ask Model S owners how many miles an 85kwh battery gets at that point, and how differing theories affected long term degradation.

I'm charging to 80% at 25 amps 240V overnight, and will never let it get below 10%, almost never get below 20%. Hoping to stay within 20-80% range the life of the car. In 10 years if I still get 180 miles on an 80% charge I'll be thrilled.

 

[widodh]

So, I was almost at home with 20km left and figured I would give it a try. I took some detours and 5km from home my S said that I had 0km left.

I quickly resetted Trip B while I saw my power limit go to 120kW.

I drove another 6,6km below 0km before my S shut down while backing up my driveway.

So I was able to drive it a bit over 6km below 0km

Ar that point the power limit was 60kW and my S was deadslow....

 

[andrewket]

I hope you charged right away. It's not good for the pack to be that low.

Just because you were able to get 6,6km today doesn't mean you will be able to do the same a few months from now. YMMV

 

[widodh]

I hope you charged right away. It's not good for the pack to be that low.

Just because you were able to get 6,6km today doesn't mean you will be able to do the same a few months from now. YMMV

Yes, I plugged in within 2 minutes

My Model S is 2,5 years old and I drove 110.000km ever since. So this is not a new Model S.

 

[Polly Wog]

Yes, I plugged in within 2 minutes

My Model S is 2,5 years old and I drove 110.000km ever since. So this is not a new Model S.

@widodh, if you don't mind, please post your rated miles and charge percent when you finish charging. Thanks.

 

[apacheguy]

@widodh, if you don't mind, please post your rated miles and charge percent when you finish charging. Thanks.

Ditto. I'd be nice to see if those miles below zero got shuffled back up to the top end.

Ar that point the power limit was 60kW and my S was deadslow....

Hmm. Don't like that. Others have reported a 20 kW limit before the S shuts down. Would be nice if at least this parameter was consistent.