1-2 Times A Week Charging

[Zaxxon]

Bad news is that I just identified the breaker that the outlet is on and its 15 amps.

Bummer! I figured that would be the case when you said 70s-built, but was holding out hope. Is your electrical panel in the garage?

 

[SmartElectric]

A few years ago, I charged our Tesla on 120V 15A outlet at 12A continuous daily for one year. Ontario Canada, same climate as NY.

The regular weekly driving was about 300 km. The charging barely kept up most weeks, and I did end up fast charging (supercharger is near us) once every week or two.

It "worked". Barely. Two things :

1. Absolutely do not plug anything else into the same circuit. Many houses have multiple plugs and devices off the same breaker. The Tesla will pull the maximum 12A continuous rated current from the receptacle for 10 hours at a time. The receptacle WILL get warm.

2. Periodically check the Tesla plug you insert into the receptacle. Finish a 10+ hour charge and then stop charging. Unplug the Tesla charging cord. Physically touch the pins on the plug, if they are searing/lava hot to the touch, you may need to install a replacement receptacle which will have better "grip" to the pins of the charging cord.

If you notice ANY warnings in the car during charging, stop charging and fix the problem.


I also charged my Smart ED (EV) on 120V for 2000 consecutive nights (>5 years) until I recently installed 240V for it, so 120V charging DOES work. I replaced the receptacle with a high grade receptacle (not just a home depot special) after I experienced issues with the original receptacle (circa 1970).

 

[helix757]

If there is only one outlet (receptacle) on the circuit then the existing 3 wires (hot, neutral and ground) can be repurposed to be (hot, hot and ground.) You won't need to run new wire provided the existing wire is in good condition.

At least one supplier of electric vehicle service equipment (EVSE), ClipperCreek, sells an EVSE for this specific scenario (240V/15A)

What gauge

A few years ago, I charged our Tesla on 120V 15A outlet at 12A continuous daily for one year. Ontario Canada, same climate as NY.

The regular weekly driving was about 300 km. The charging barely kept up most weeks, and I did end up fast charging (supercharger is near us) once every week or two.

It "worked". Barely. Two things :

1. Absolutely do not plug anything else into the same circuit. Many houses have multiple plugs and devices off the same breaker. The Tesla will pull the maximum 12A continuous rated current from the receptacle for 10 hours at a time. The receptacle WILL get warm.

2. Periodically check the Tesla plug you insert into the receptacle. Finish a 10+ hour charge and then stop charging. Unplug the Tesla charging cord. Physically touch the pins on the plug, if they are searing/lava hot to the touch, you may need to install a replacement receptacle which will have better "grip" to the pins of the charging cord.

If you notice ANY warnings in the car during charging, stop charging and fix the problem.


I also charged my Smart ED (EV) on 120V for 2000 consecutive nights (>5 years) until I recently installed 240V for it, so 120V charging DOES work. I replaced the receptacle with a high grade receptacle (not just a home depot special) after I experienced issues with the original receptacle (circa 1970).

Thanks for the reply. I do also have an ICE which I plan on using more in the colder/winter months anyway. As for home charging I plan on doing it when I get home at night and removing it when I leave in the morning. The outlet I am going to be using is an outdoor receptacle which I believe are built a bit more stronger.

 

[jcanoe]

What gauge

Thanks for the reply. I do also have an ICE which I plan on using more in the colder/winter months anyway. As for home charging I plan on doing it when I get home at night and removing it when I leave in the morning. The outlet I am going to be using is an outdoor receptacle which I believe are built a bit more stronger.

Re wire gauge; the wire gauge is specified for the maximum amperage of the circuit. The current wiring should be correct for a 15 amp circuit; 120V or 240V won't change the wire gauge required.

Even if you decide to stay with Level 1 (120V) charging you should replace the current receptacle if it is more than 5 years old, outdoors where it is exposed to the elements. Use a commercial grade or hospital grade receptacle. These cost a few dollars more than the receptacles sold loose in the big box home improvement stores.

 

[helix757]

Yes, that is kind of a one-way compatibility thing in electric code. If the circuit is only made for 15A, with the thinner wire and a 15A breaker, then it is only allowed to have the 5-15 outlet types on it. But if it is built as a 20A circuit, with the thicker wire and a 20A outlet, then code does allow putting a mix of either 5-15 or 5-20 outlets on it, as the installer has available.

So following that logic condition, if you see one of the 5-20 outlets on there, you can reasonably know it has to be a 20A circuit behind it. But if it's a 5-15 outlet, that could be either, so you would want to open it up to check the wires and breaker to make sure which size the circuit is.



That tends to get really overblown as a fear because of a few bits of information that end up out of context. So here is some of the breakdown on that:

1. The kernel of truth: The studies about lithium ion battery charging and power rates that show this thing you're talking about are trying to keep extra variables out of the equation. So they are just straight up battery cells without any cooling apparatus. And so the higher charging power heats up the cells a lot more, and it is mainly this high heat while fast charging that causes most of the damage. With Tesla and a lot of other electric cars that monitor and manage the temperature well and have active liquid cooling systems, they can reduce that effect, so it's not much of an issue.

2. The things you may have heard about Tesla cars and batteries specifically were related to the earlier packs in the Model S and X. People refer to this thing called "Chargegate". But I have not seen that this is affecting any of the Model 3 or Y yet, with their newer redesigned cells and packs, so I think they have learned and improved this, so it's less of a factor in the newer cars.

3. It still doesn't "kill" your battery. With the S and X, what people were seeing was that after some amount of DC fast charging (inclusive of Superchargers and/or CHAdeMO) Tesla pushed an update that would cap down the upper limit of the charging speed. That's it. The battery wasn't "killed". It wasn't "dead". It just took longer charging up at Supercharging stops when you were traveling, which did start to annoy some people. I have a 2014 Model S with about 85K miles on it. I may have been capped or may not; I haven't bothered to measure it or check. I just tend to be a laid back, patient person, so I still travel with my car, and it takes however long it takes, and it's not significant enough for me to mind yet.

In specific regards to this response, is it okay to SC once a week or so? From what I am gathering it seems like most of the negative affects Tesla fixed and the studies aren’t including conditioned batteries likes Teslas. Because during the semester there is a supercharger on the way home

 

[Zaxxon]

In specific regards to this response, is it okay to SC once a week or so? From what I am gathering it seems like most of the negative affects Tesla fixed and the studies aren’t including conditioned batteries likes Teslas. Because during the semester there is a supercharger on the way home

That's no problem at all.

 

[helix757]

That's no problem at all.

Even if its from 20-85/90? Also if I charge 15 minuets 2-3 times a week at EVgo is that ok? Lower KWh but more frequently? Is that ok for the battery’s health?

 

[Zaxxon]

Even if its from 20-85/90? Also if I charge 15 minuets 2-3 times a week at EVgo is that ok? Lower KWh but more frequently? Is that ok for the battery’s health?

I think you're overthinking it. The car's BMS takes care of itself--you'll see this once you start using Superchargers. You'll get very high rates of charge at low SoC levels, when the battery is at an optimal temperature, etc. It'll throttle down as needed to protect the battery. When people advise against routine Supercharging, I think that's more referring to folks who are driving 500+ miles/day routinely, Supercharging 10+ times/week every week, etc.

I've taken bunches of road trips in our Teslas (> 30,000 miles' worth at this point by my best guess) and have used Supercharging extensively (I've visited 85 different SC locations and have probably Supercharged 125+ times). During many of these legs I've gone down to 5% or lower SoC. Have charged to 100% sporadically when I thought I might need it. No excessive degradation on any of our vehicles yet--all are within 5% or closer to their as-new rated range.

Don't charge to 100% unless you need it right then and there. Don't drop below 10% unless you need to, and plan to charge right back up. Other than that, it should take care of itself. That's my philosophy, anyway.

 

[helix757]

I think you're overthinking it. The car's BMS takes care of itself--you'll see this once you start using Superchargers. You'll get very high rates of charge at low SoC levels, when the battery is at an optimal temperature, etc. It'll throttle down as needed to protect the battery. When people advise against routine Supercharging, I think that's more referring to folks who are driving 500+ miles/day routinely, Supercharging 10+ times/week every week, etc.

I've taken bunches of road trips in our Teslas (> 30,000 miles' worth at this point by my best guess) and have used Supercharging extensively (I've visited 85 different SC locations and have probably Supercharged 125+ times). During many of these legs I've gone down to 5% or lower SoC. Have charged to 100% sporadically when I thought I might need it. No excessive degradation on any of our vehicles yet--all are within 5% or closer to their as-new rated range.

Don't charge to 100% unless you need it right then and there. Don't drop below 10% unless you need to, and plan to charge right back up. Other than that, it should take care of itself. That's my philosophy, anyway.

Maybe I am. This car is an investment for me I want to last a while (100k+ miles), which is why I am overthinking the degradation. Thanks for the response it makes it feel better about fast DC charging.

 

[Zaxxon]

Maybe I am. This car is an investment for me I want to last a while (100k+ miles), which is why I am overthinking the degradation. Thanks for the response it makes it feel better about fast DC charging.

I totally get it, and was the same way initially. Hopefully you can get your home set up to manage most of your charging (or the base 5-15 ends up doing it). But if not, you'll be fine.

 

[jcanoe]

If you are concerned about the long term affect of frequent Supercharging on the health of the Tesla's battery pack you can seek out the Urban Supercharger locations. Urban Superchargers are usually located in parking garages. Urban Superchargers are limited to 72kW charging rate, this is a lower charging rate than the maximum charging rate of the higher power 120kW, 150kW and 250kW Superchargers. In terms of not overly stressing the Tesla's battery pack the Urban Supercharger's charging rate (72kW) is well matched to the size of the Model Y's battery pack (78 to 82 kWh.)