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10.3.1 rolling out

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Yes:
Based on YouTube videos and comments here, I think this is par for the course; it's just that some people see the glass as half full ("it's amazing technology" -- which it is) and others see it as half empty ("it could kill somebody" -- which it could). Both views are correct. As evidence, see the videos by YouTuber Tesla Joy. She's posted two videos that show she's had to disengage FSD multiple times per drive because it was doing something wrong, but she raves about how great it was. Indeed, compared to any other production car's autonomy features, it is amazing; but it's nowhere near what Tesla's name for it ("full self-driving") implies. Hence the expansion for the acronym I used in my above-referenced post: flaky student driver.

Although my take on it is closer to the glass-half-empty perspective, I also acknowledge the glass-half-full aspects of it. Flawed though it is, the technology is very impressive and holds a lot of promise. My biggest concern is that some beta testers (and those of us with this feature ARE BETA TESTERS) will do irresponsible things that will cause property damage, injury, or even loss of life. That's why I've tried to tamp down peoples' enthusiasm to get into the beta program. Yes, it's a cool new technology; but at this stage in its development, it is not a reward to get it -- it's an added responsibility. It's harder to drive with the software as it exists now, because it might suddenly try to shift lanes, stop short, etc., requiring either immediate disengagement or a very quick check of something you wouldn't normally be checking (like to see that a lane is clear before the car can move into it). It takes more attention to drive with this feature active than to drive manually. I often listen to podcasts while driving, but I find that doing so with FSD active is bad because I lack the attention to devote to both the podcast and driving.

I hope that Tesla's FSD will, in time, be a truly useful -- even revolutionary -- feature; but right now, beta testers are accepting an added burden.
Well said sir, I applaud you.
 
Yes - it takes some getting used to.

I'm now using fsd beta only in simple routes with little traffic. Once I gain confidence and they go through a few more releases, then may be in tighter traffic. I'm definitely not trying unprotected turns in busy traffic anytime soon.
Doing the exact same. Trying to use FSD when there isn't too much traffic. Also avoiding unprotected turns especially 2 ways stops for now. biggest issue I have found so far is it making late changes into the turn lane or waiting too long to commit to a turn.
 
It is not working well for me too. It drives the car in the middle of a wide unmarked road; turns are 100% unpredictable and 90% bad enough to require immediate disengagement; tries to go 40 mpg in residential zone; missed a turn; happily goes on yellow light so much so that it is a solidly red by the time of crossing the intersection; etc., etc. It reminds me a Lego Mindstorm robot with acoustic sensor coded by a group of undergraduate students.

I found one really positive thing of FSD. Finally, I can now "see" vehicles on my sides when driving on highway, but this has nothing to do with full-SELF-driving.
This version is BAD almost unusable. Constant false braking...turns that worked before, cannot navigate them now. I nearly stopped using it....just my 2 cents

Very dangerous....at best. The other thing I noticed is telling me to pay attention when I am looking straight on? Not sure why
 
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No, a bunch of folks that had 10.3 with lots of FCW’s got booted off beta, now show a low safety score are NOT back on 10.3.1. We’re they booted off because of “low score” or Tesla knew there was no Beta compatible with some cars I don’t know. But in the end some ended up kicked off beta and stuck with a low score because of all the FCW’s recorded in their history.

I have not seen anyone that says they were downgraded, with a low score, reupgraded.

There is about 4-5 different states folks are in. I’m not going to review all of them for you. I was responding to ONE of them. Not the group that managed to stay on 10.3 until 10.3.1 came out (which I think both you and I are in). I lost FSD for all of 10 minutes and never saw an FCW.
Nobody lost the beta due to a low safety score after getting the beta. That is simply not true. Stop reiterating the same bulls**** without any actual proof. You have now been proven wrong several times. Just take the fact that you are wrong.
 
This is called religion. You rave when your god saves someone's life, but never attribute anyone's death to the actions of your god.
I rave about FSD and I have to intervene and disengage quite a bit. It’s not about FSD performing flawlessly. It’s at best a driving aid right now. That doesn’t mean it’s bad or useless. It still does 90-95% of the driving, it just needs some help occasionally and what it does do is genuinely impressive. Tesla makes it clear that for now, you’re the driver and you need to be aware at all times. That makes it fairly easy, at least for me, to intervene. I know what I would be doing as a driver, so if the car deviates, I do it. If it hesitates, I hit the go pedal. If the steering goes wonky, I take over turning the wheel. It’s basically AP on steroids, so I love it since I loved AP.

People have asked me what good AP is when I have to stay alert with my hands on the wheel, and my response has been there is a very real difference between me turning the wheel and me letting the wheel turn with my hands on it. It’s similar to cruise control and adaptive cruise control. Obviously you can’t just stop paying attention to the speed of other cars when you have cruise control or even adaptive cruise on, but there is a very real small relief to the cognitive and physical load on drives by letting the car handle those tasks even though you need to stay alert and ready to take over the braking or accelerating at any time. Same thing with AP, and now FSD, when letting it handle the steering and navigation.
 
This version is BAD almost unusable. Constant false braking...turns that worked before, cannot navigate them now. I nearly stopped using it....just my 2 cents

Very dangerous....at best. The other thing I noticed is telling me to pay attention when I am looking straight on? Not sure why
Were you (and the others having issues) previously in the beta program? Or were you just added with the 99 crew?
 
I am new to FSD Beta with 10.3.1. I just took it out for a hour long test run. It had many problems. I have been using AP, EAP, FSD feature for > 4 years so pretty experienced with those driver assist features. I assumed I would need to just get use to it to be more comfortable. I think my biggest issue is with the lane changes for no reason. NOA on freeways would do the same thing so mostly I did not use it. Like on a three lane road and I am in the center. It changed into the first lane which I normally never go into which has cars parked in that lane. After passing about 4 cars it comes up to parked car and decides to go back into the middle lane before hitting the parked car. Well I decided to just take over with the center lane now full of cars. Then after I turned it back on it decided to go back in the right lane and I just turned off the blinker and after a couple times it seemed to stop. On another trip coming home about 2 short green lights from my house it decides to move into the left lane after the second green light has to make quick lane change back to the right lane. There no traffic for any of that. Why not just stay in the right lane? I am currently using mode "average". At one point I had "chill" but it somehow changed to average. I don't think I would try "aggressive". I guess I would prefer if there was not cars in front of me to just stay in the same lane until it needs to move over for a turn with time to spare. Is there is tricks I can use?
 
I am new to FSD Beta with 10.3.1. I just took it out for a hour long test run. It had many problems. I have been using AP, EAP, FSD feature for > 4 years so pretty experienced with those driver assist features. I assumed I would need to just get use to it to be more comfortable. I think my biggest issue is with the lane changes for no reason. NOA on freeways would do the same thing so mostly I did not use it. Like on a three lane road and I am in the center. It changed into the first lane which I normally never go into which has cars parked in that lane. After passing about 4 cars it comes up to parked car and decides to go back into the middle lane before hitting the parked car. Well I decided to just take over with the center lane now full of cars. Then after I turned it back on it decided to go back in the right lane and I just turned off the blinker and after a couple times it seemed to stop. On another trip coming home about 2 short green lights from my house it decides to move into the left lane after the second green light has to make quick lane change back to the right lane. There no traffic for any of that. Why not just stay in the right lane? I am currently using mode "average". At one point I had "chill" but it somehow changed to average. I don't think I would try "aggressive". I guess I would prefer if there was not cars in front of me to just stay in the same lane until it needs to move over for a turn with time to spare. Is there is tricks I can use?
It's "Assertive", not "Aggressive". But yeah, I struggle with random lane changes, too. My commute is strictly 1-lane streets and roads except for the last 2 turns. Before the first turn it chooses the right lane and it's all hunkidory but the second part, it stays on the left (which is a left turn only lane) to go straight. I normally let it do it because it's basically a private road. But it's wrong.

1635280238343.png
 
It's "Assertive", not "Aggressive". But yeah, I struggle with random lane changes, too. My commute is strictly 1-lane streets and roads except for the last 2 turns. Before the first turn it chooses the right lane and it's all hunkidory but the second part, it stays on the left (which is a left turn only lane) to go straight. I normally let it do it because it's basically a private road. But it's wrong.

I’m going to start sending the FSD email address these sorts of notes. I don’t want to flood them with random “well this one time it did a bad left turn” sort of notes. But repeatable things where FSD is blatantly wrong seem useful to send in. I have an area on my commute that is similar and FSD always goes into the left lane erroneously.
 
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I’m going to start sending the FSD email address these sorts of notes. I don’t want to flood them with random “well this one time it did a bad left turn” sort of notes. But repeatable things where FSD is blatantly wrong seem useful to send in. I have an area on my commute that is similar and FSD always goes into the left lane erroneously.
Yeah, I do that!

1635280873367.png
 
Appreciate your input. Yes, I meant production Autopilot.

I just don't see how some of these guys can go on zero intervention drives. It gives the impression that it can do it without making you crap your pants. I'm literally white knuckle driving whenever FSD is enabled. While production level AP is not doing anything near as complex, you can be pretty confident that it's not going to run a red light lol.
I also live in New York State and just got FSD for the first time too. It has been less reliable than the videos (I have also been watching tons of those 😀) and I think some of that is due to just being in a different part of the country. My hope is that with more testers in NY it will get more accurate in this area. My experience overall has been positive but I do have to disengage regularly.
 
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I also live in New York State and just got FSD for the first time too. It has been less reliable than the videos (I have also been watching tons of those 😀) and I think some of that is due to just being in a different part of the country. My hope is that with more testers in NY it will get more accurate in this area. My experience overall has been positive but I do have to disengage regularly.
No - its not primarily a location problem. Its just the nature of youtube videos vs experiencing the drive yourself.

NY state road system is no different than other states in any significant way.
 
You just proved my point.

If they stated they have a “score” of X they got kicked off of Beta. If that score is below 99 they won’t get 10.3.1 automatically. Which is what you are claiming.

There is no such thing as being on 10.3 and having a score.

See threads like this.

Will Tesla honor safety score before 10.3 mishap?
Not sure how I “proved” your point given that I actually cited the posts you were responding to and those posts were clear on their face as to the meaning. The poster in post #2 wasn’t kicked off or booted off beta. He/she, like many, accepted an update that wasn’t a beta release - it was a release that Tesla pushed to all of those on 10.3 to alleviate the issues that were being caused by 10.3. (And then Tesla pulled that back from those who had not yet updated and instead remotely disabled AEB and FCW). Now, like all of the others in the same position as the poster in #2, he/she received 10.3.1 even though the issues in 10.3 resulted in him falling below 99 (and there are many, many, many people who were in the same situation but with lower safety scores, yet still received the 10.3.1 update. And why? Because Tesla didn’t boot anyone off of beta due to safety scores that fell because of 10.3 issues.)

With all of the goal posts you move and straw men you erect, I can see why you believe that you are rarely wrong.

As this is truly a moot issue, it’s not worthy of the continued back and forth, so this is my last response on this matter. If you deem that as a win for you, then congrats.
 
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Some feedback from several drives with the new FSD Beta 10.3.1 that I e-mail to Tesla. I wonder how many of you are seeing similar things (from what I have read already many of your comments are like these).



1. The FSD does not recognize School Zones for what they are. The system seeing the yellow flash lights (although displaying them as yellow and red flashing lights) but it never acknowledged the reduction in speed (35 mph to 20 mph in these situations). I had to manually break to slow the car down to the proper speed.

2. This version of the software handles yellow lights appropriately and does not slam on breaks as soon as the light switches to yellow - GREAT JOB HERE!

3. Many turns (right and left) are still a struggle and the auto pilot disengaged many times. I am assuming that this is learning effort and as it does more (or the same turns) more it will get better.

4. While driving on curvy roads I still think that the autopilot keeps the car too close to the outside of the turn and which that it was more towards the center of the lane.

AN IDEA - Can you make a voice command so that when the left toggle wheel is pressed that something can be said so that the camera records in the same manner as if the icon was pressed? That might help capture more videos as when the camera makes a bad decision we are usually two hands on the controls and feet doing something and can’t quickly get to the icon.

———

1. At a left turn with a stop sign set a little in front of the actual intersection as soon as the car stopped at the stop sign autopilot disengaged. When I reengaged the car accelerated forward a little fast (I was not sure if it was going to actually turn) so I manually disengaged and completed the turn myself.

2. At a left turn from a main road onto an aux road the car completely stopped on the main road well short of the turn (causing the cars behind me to stop as well) and set there for a second “thinking”. Due to the amount of traffic I manually disengaged and completed the turn.

3. At a four way stop the car did EXCELLENT with stopping, watching other cars and taking it’s turn.

4. At a different left turn (this time I took a video) the autopilot did an amazingly wonderful job and completed the turn.

5. At an exit off on an access road the autopilot missed a speed change (from 50 mph to 35 mph) and then missed a school zone (35 mph to 25 mph) which followed the 35 mph sign within only a few hundred feet. It tried to have me going around 45+mph in the 25 mph school zone so I manually breaked until the car slowed down to the 25 mph speed and manually disengaged the autopilot.

—————

1. At a left turn from a stop sign on to a road (one way road from left to right). The car stopped at the stop sign (which is a little short of the intersection and immediately disengaged it’s steering. Before that it was trying to edge to the left because there was a car in front of us (past the stop sign but it had not made a turn to the right yet) and it was trying to go around it. When it disengaged the steering the speed (accelerator) did not disengage so the car then tried to drive out into on coming traffic. I braked and stop / disengaged everything and then manually completed the left turn when able

2. At a familiar right turn the car again (while on auto pilot) went to far straight, dived to the right to try and make the right turn (late) and disengaged the steering part of the way through the turn. I manually took over and completed the turn.

3. At another familiar left hand turn from a stop light onto an access road the car started to make the left but turned too sharply, stopped (hesitated) and then shallowed out (went back to the right) to try and correct. The care behind me almost got me when my car was making this turn.

4. Changing highways via cloverleaf. I manually placed the car into the correct land and the autopilot made the 270 turn with no problem. However when it became time to merge with the other traffic the autopilot disengaged and I had to do that manually.

5. I have noticed that when there is a merger of two lanes into one even with a 7 set for car spacing my car does not give enough space for the other lanes care to join in on the standard one from this lane, one from that lane manner that many people do when you are merging at a slow rate of speed (less that 10-15 mph).

————

1. At several turns both right and left the autopilot disengaged at the last second (prior to the final rollout in the center of the lane that it was turning into). It’s getting there.

2. On an acceleration (on ramp from an access road onto the highway with rush hour traffic) the auto pilot was amazing. It paced the slowed down use hour traffic and waited / worked to find an opening and then slowly merged. It was a beautiful sight and well done.

3. Several time today on intersections that it had previous trouble with when it was attempted later in the day it made the correct decision and turns. However, there was also two occasions where previous “good turns” were not followed up with the same good turn on the evening drive.

4. Highway driving is amazing as it has been for some time. The on ramps and off ramps speeds / accelerations are a little aggressive at times so they require a lot of roll of the toggle to manual adjust up or down the speed of the car currently.

5. We have a lot of U-Turns under highways here in Texas to get to the other side (both side access roads being one way) and the auto pilot HATES them and almost always disengages as soon as it starts the first left turn.

6. The car seems to like to hand out on the outside of turns especially if there are concrete barriers or curbs on that edge. Almost constant fear of rubbing both.

Is this what most of you all are noticing?

When my friends ask what it is like I describe it as this. It's like the first time you took you kid out and let them sit in the drivers seat and just drive. 95% of the time it was just great, the other 5% of the time they are trying to get you killed. LOLOLOL. We are beta testers, this is why things are tested like this so that they can get better. Remember it was only a few years back when there where sailing ships, cloth covered winged aircraft, and cars that could not go over 60 mph and yet people pushed the limits and someone had to beta test these efforts to make sure that they would work. It is now our turn to help the geniuses push the limits of what we can do now into the future so that someday self driving cars are as normal as jets, microwaves, and computers. We all are making history! Good luck and stay safe out there.
 
Some feedback from several drives with the new FSD Beta 10.3.1 that I e-mail to Tesla. I wonder how many of you are seeing similar things (from what I have read already many of your comments are like these).



1. The FSD does not recognize School Zones for what they are. The system seeing the yellow flash lights (although displaying them as yellow and red flashing lights) but it never acknowledged the reduction in speed (35 mph to 20 mph in these situations). I had to manually break to slow the car down to the proper speed.

2. This version of the software handles yellow lights appropriately and does not slam on breaks as soon as the light switches to yellow - GREAT JOB HERE!

3. Many turns (right and left) are still a struggle and the auto pilot disengaged many times. I am assuming that this is learning effort and as it does more (or the same turns) more it will get better.

4. While driving on curvy roads I still think that the autopilot keeps the car too close to the outside of the turn and which that it was more towards the center of the lane.

AN IDEA - Can you make a voice command so that when the left toggle wheel is pressed that something can be said so that the camera records in the same manner as if the icon was pressed? That might help capture more videos as when the camera makes a bad decision we are usually two hands on the controls and feet doing something and can’t quickly get to the icon.

———

1. At a left turn with a stop sign set a little in front of the actual intersection as soon as the car stopped at the stop sign autopilot disengaged. When I reengaged the car accelerated forward a little fast (I was not sure if it was going to actually turn) so I manually disengaged and completed the turn myself.

2. At a left turn from a main road onto an aux road the car completely stopped on the main road well short of the turn (causing the cars behind me to stop as well) and set there for a second “thinking”. Due to the amount of traffic I manually disengaged and completed the turn.

3. At a four way stop the car did EXCELLENT with stopping, watching other cars and taking it’s turn.

4. At a different left turn (this time I took a video) the autopilot did an amazingly wonderful job and completed the turn.

5. At an exit off on an access road the autopilot missed a speed change (from 50 mph to 35 mph) and then missed a school zone (35 mph to 25 mph) which followed the 35 mph sign within only a few hundred feet. It tried to have me going around 45+mph in the 25 mph school zone so I manually breaked until the car slowed down to the 25 mph speed and manually disengaged the autopilot.

—————

1. At a left turn from a stop sign on to a road (one way road from left to right). The car stopped at the stop sign (which is a little short of the intersection and immediately disengaged it’s steering. Before that it was trying to edge to the left because there was a car in front of us (past the stop sign but it had not made a turn to the right yet) and it was trying to go around it. When it disengaged the steering the speed (accelerator) did not disengage so the car then tried to drive out into on coming traffic. I braked and stop / disengaged everything and then manually completed the left turn when able

2. At a familiar right turn the car again (while on auto pilot) went to far straight, dived to the right to try and make the right turn (late) and disengaged the steering part of the way through the turn. I manually took over and completed the turn.

3. At another familiar left hand turn from a stop light onto an access road the car started to make the left but turned too sharply, stopped (hesitated) and then shallowed out (went back to the right) to try and correct. The care behind me almost got me when my car was making this turn.

4. Changing highways via cloverleaf. I manually placed the car into the correct land and the autopilot made the 270 turn with no problem. However when it became time to merge with the other traffic the autopilot disengaged and I had to do that manually.

5. I have noticed that when there is a merger of two lanes into one even with a 7 set for car spacing my car does not give enough space for the other lanes care to join in on the standard one from this lane, one from that lane manner that many people do when you are merging at a slow rate of speed (less that 10-15 mph).

————

1. At several turns both right and left the autopilot disengaged at the last second (prior to the final rollout in the center of the lane that it was turning into). It’s getting there.

2. On an acceleration (on ramp from an access road onto the highway with rush hour traffic) the auto pilot was amazing. It paced the slowed down use hour traffic and waited / worked to find an opening and then slowly merged. It was a beautiful sight and well done.

3. Several time today on intersections that it had previous trouble with when it was attempted later in the day it made the correct decision and turns. However, there was also two occasions where previous “good turns” were not followed up with the same good turn on the evening drive.

4. Highway driving is amazing as it has been for some time. The on ramps and off ramps speeds / accelerations are a little aggressive at times so they require a lot of roll of the toggle to manual adjust up or down the speed of the car currently.

5. We have a lot of U-Turns under highways here in Texas to get to the other side (both side access roads being one way) and the auto pilot HATES them and almost always disengages as soon as it starts the first left turn.

6. The car seems to like to hand out on the outside of turns especially if there are concrete barriers or curbs on that edge. Almost constant fear of rubbing both.

Is this what most of you all are noticing?

When my friends ask what it is like I describe it as this. It's like the first time you took you kid out and let them sit in the drivers seat and just drive. 95% of the time it was just great, the other 5% of the time they are trying to get you killed. LOLOLOL. We are beta testers, this is why things are tested like this so that they can get better. Remember it was only a few years back when there where sailing ships, cloth covered winged aircraft, and cars that could not go over 60 mph and yet people pushed the limits and someone had to beta test these efforts to make sure that they would work. It is now our turn to help the geniuses push the limits of what we can do now into the future so that someday self driving cars are as normal as jets, microwaves, and computers. We all are making history! Good luck and stay safe out there.

Right on! For me, so far 10.3.1 has been a combination of a roller coaster ride and sitting in the passenger seat while my teenage daughter learned to drive … and I absolutely love it. IMHO, those of us gifted with the opportunity to help advance this amazing technology need to do all we can to further the cause.
 
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My commute is strictly 1-lane streets and roads except for the last 2 turns. Before the first turn it chooses the right lane and it's all hunkidory but the second part, it stays on the left (which is a left turn only lane) to go straight. I normally let it do it because it's basically a private road. But it's wrong.
I guess Tesla still needs to learn how to read. I guess road signs in Europe are easier for machine learning; in the US everything is written clearly in plain English.
d-photo-u1
 
I guess Tesla still needs to learn how to read. I guess road signs in Europe are easier for machine learning; in the US everything is written clearly in plain English.
As of now it ONLY reads and sees standard Speed Limit signs. Likely going to be a little while and Tesla will start adding some signs along and along. Probably No Turn On Red and/or special Speed Limit signs will be next. Others that need to be added first are Road Closed.
 
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