10.8 FSD

[Canefan456]

FWIW 10.8 brought me my first real "my car is actively trying to kill me" moment.... driving to a friends place via back roads, so it's a 1-lane-each-way road, well/clearly market, 55 mph speed limit.... seemingly randomly the car activates turn signal and changes into the oncoming lane as if it's a valid driving lane- crossing double yellow line to do it.

There were no cars coming and pretty far visibility- so no "real" danger, but it was a very WTF moment I never experienced (including on the same road/drive) with earlier versions.

Only other real "failure" on the trip was it was unable to understand how to make a turn it had failed on with previous versions- it just sits there and does nothing besides turn on the blinker.... pic attached showing the left it never even tries to actually make.

Previously I'd manually take over as there were often other cars around.

This time I decided to see what it'd do if i just used the accelerator (at some intersections I've found it won't start the turn without you prompting it, but if you do use the accelerator it'll at least do the steering correctly).

Not so much this time had to manually take over halfway through as it jerked the wheel around not understanding where to actually go.

Intersection pic attached, the circle is roughly where the car stops and sits with turn signal on rather than trying to make the left, red arrow showing direction of travel to that point.

View attachment 748588

I had this happen several times on 10.5. Here is my post about it.

Wiki - MASTER THREAD: Actual FSD Beta downloads and experiences

Sorry to see its still doing this on 10.8

 

[mhan00]

Drove about 50 miles today. Mostly okay, but three times the car charged at yellow lights that were clearly going to turn red before getting to the stop line, forcing me to hit the brakes since I didn’t want to find out if the car was just going to blast through or SLAM on the brakes at the last second to stop. Also had a few very dumb attempted lane changes that would have resulted in a missed turn that I overrode.

One new message I got today happened while sitting at a red light with the sun behind it. The car had a different beep with a warning message that the front camera was degraded/blocked and at the top of the screen where it normally flashes blue to warn you to keep your hands on the wheel, it was pulsing red. And a traffic light icon appeared on the Beta display with an exclamation mark. Interesting new warning.

 

[wtwieder]

Enter in a destination as normal. To add an intermediate stop, hit the “…” at the bottom right of the navigation pane.

View attachment 748578

Select the “add stop” option and add like you normally would.

To reorder the stops, hit the “…” button again and select “edit trip”. You can then drag the stops around by holding the double bar icon to the left of each stop and dragging vertically above or below other stops.

View attachment 748579

Can you change the route to the final destination without an actual stop, using way points? For example, is there a way of turning left a block earlier that navigate has chosen?

 

[lolder]

Had a pretty good 27 mile rural highway drive on 10.8. A block from home it stopped at a red traffic light behind another car in the thru/left lane. It put the right turn signal on and started to pass the car in front in the right hand turn lane. I disconnected instantly. I wonder if it would have tried to go thru the red light. These are not "edge cases" that beta software is usually used for.

 

[jabloomf1230]

Just a warning that FSD Beta is not always good at turning from a fast speed road to a slow speed road. It can take the turn too fast and go too wide.

Gardendale Road does not appear to have any speed limit tags in either OSM or TomTom. My guess is that the Gardendale Road lower speed limit sign is displaced from the intersection, so the car starts to rapidly accelerate to the speed limit of SR 46 which is 55 mph. I have a similar situation near my house.

 

[EVNow]

Gardendale Road does not appear to have any speed limit tags in either OSM or TomTom. My guess is that the Gardendale Road lower speed limit sign is displaced from the intersection, so the car starts to rapidly accelerate to the speed limit of SR 46 which is 55 mph. I have a similar situation near my house.

I think we and Tesla underestimate the number issues that can be traced back to map issues.

This is what makes me so skeptical about any approach that uses HD maps. If simple 2d maps can’t be kept accurate what are the chances of keeping 3D maps up to date?

 

[jebinc]

I think we and Tesla underestimate the number issues that can be traced back to map issues.

This is what makes me so skeptical about any approach that uses HD maps. If simple 2d maps can’t be kept accurate what are the chances of keeping 3D maps up to date?

Nil?

 

[Twiglett]

Map problem.

Tesla really needs to install a transparent process to take in map corrections and get it done. We should be able to see the status of update request and in the next build we should get the change. If small companies like TomTom implement it, why not a Trillion $ market cap company ?

When summon was using OSM it was great, but much less useful now. I spent ages adding updates to OSM maps in our area in preparation for FSD - time well wasted.
It is rather frustrating that mapping errors are causing so many issues for FSD - its almost like its main cause for errors is over reliance on map data over what the camera observe.
Imagine if FSD were able to correct map errors ?
I did try the suggested power off workaround but that didn't fix the constant 50ft offset my car has had since getting 10.4.
Haven't had chance to try out the Austin 4mile offset yet though.

 

[diplomat33]

This is what makes me so skeptical about any approach that uses HD maps. If simple 2d maps can’t be kept accurate what are the chances of keeping 3D maps up to date?

Because it's apples and oranges. The 2D maps are crap to begin with. They are not accurate or detailed. And they are never maintained by the companies that make them. HD maps on the other hand are highly detailed and accurate and usually will be maintained automatically by the AV fleet that uses them. For example, Mobileye is able to crowdsource their fleet of millions of cars to automatically update their maps regularly. Waymo likewise uses their fleet of robotaxis to automatically keep the maps updated on a continuous basis.

It is also worth noting that info like the speed limit on Gardensdale Rd would not change a lot. Once it is updated correctly, it would be good for a long time. The 2D maps are just crap and are missing a lot of information. But HD maps would be built right so they would have this information correct from the get-go.

 

[LowlyOilBurner]

I have yet to log many miles on 10.8, probably under 50 right now but:

-Performance on the unmarked rural roads where I live seem pretty much unchanged. Car does stay to the right a bit better. I use my unmarked road as a test, there is one pretty sharp curve, FSD always steers the car into the left side of the road at this turn. It’s done this since 10.3. I always report this.

-55mph two lane road I travel frequently had phantom braking ALOT on it. Seems to be gone now, but will have to drive it a few more times to confirm. This is a huge improvement for me.

 

[Sporty]

Because it's apples and oranges. The 2D maps are crap to begin with. They are not accurate or detailed. And they are never maintained by the companies that make them. HD maps on the other hand are highly detailed and accurate and usually will be maintained automatically by the AV fleet that uses them. For example, Mobileye is able to crowdsource their fleet of millions of cars to automatically update their maps regularly. Waymo likewise uses their fleet of robotaxis to automatically keep the maps updated on a continuous basis.

It is also worth noting that info like the speed limit on Gardensdale Rd would not change a lot. Once it is updated correctly, it would be good for a long time. The 2D maps are just crap and are missing a lot of information. But HD maps would be built right so they would have this information correct from the get-go.

If the current maps are a problem it seems like T would be crowd sourcing fixes to them from their fleet. Not to be addressing a serious short coming especially when they have an advantage in their ability to do so doesn’t make any sense.

 

[EVNow]

The 2D maps are crap to begin with. They are not accurate or detailed. And they are never maintained by the companies that make them.

LOL. Do't you think you should research a bit before saying something like that ? There are companies whose only work is to maintain 2D maps. Its big and competitive business.

Behind the map: how we keep our maps up to date | TomTom Newsroom

Take a look at TomTom’s map-making process to understand how we can consistently deliver map accuracy down to centimeters.

www.tomtom.com

ps : Extra points if you can find how many user updates TomTom processes per week.

 

[Twiglett]

Because it's apples and oranges. The 2D maps are crap to begin with. They are not accurate or detailed. And they are never maintained by the companies that make them. HD maps on the other hand are highly detailed and accurate and usually will be maintained automatically by the AV fleet that uses them. For example, Mobileye is able to crowdsource their fleet of millions of cars to automatically update their maps regularly. Waymo likewise uses their fleet of robotaxis to automatically keep the maps updated on a continuous basis.

It is also worth noting that info like the speed limit on Gardensdale Rd would not change a lot. Once it is updated correctly, it would be good for a long time. The 2D maps are just crap and are missing a lot of information. But HD maps would be built right so they would have this information correct from the get-go.

this is where I have the problem - if Mobileeye is able to crowdsource map data from their millions of cars - why doesn't Tesla?
Especially now FSD failures dues to crappy map data is such an issue.
That was supposed to be their big advantage.

 

[T3M3T]

Had a pretty good 27 mile rural highway drive on 10.8. A block from home it stopped at a red traffic light behind another car in the thru/left lane. It put the right turn signal on and started to pass the car in front in the right hand turn lane. I disconnected instantly. I wonder if it would have tried to go thru the red light. These are not "edge cases" that beta software is usually used for.

It happened to me with previous version. Stopped at red light on left lane behind another car. Then It decided to turn on signal and change to right lane for no reason!

 

[FOOLSLFDRVNG]

Anyone have FSD go in reverse without warning? I canceled FSD and about to make a left turn red light waiting for green. As soon as it changes green I hit the gas pedal and it goes in reverse and give me and my wife a surprise whip lash not expecting it to go backwards luckily not smashing into the car behind me. I had adrenaline rushing and looked at the screen and shifted into drive. Later on I recall not hearing the reverse sound nor did I see the reverse camera. This is the most frightening FSD experience so far. I have it captured on dashcam, not sure who to send to.

 

[Taser8612]

this is where I have the problem - if Mobileeye is able to crowdsource map data from their millions of cars - why doesn't Tesla?
Especially now FSD failures dues to crappy map data is such an issue.
That was supposed to be their big advantage.

Agreed, but I don’t get why FSD has such a bias for map data over camera data. As much as 10.8 has thoroughly impressed me, and it has, the trouble spots on my drives are still most often from new/recent road construction changes, apparently not reflected in the reference.

 

[JHCCAZ]

Anyone have FSD go in reverse without warning? I canceled FSD and about to make a left turn red light waiting for green. As soon as it changes green I hit the gas pedal and it goes in reverse and give me and my wife a surprise whip lash not expecting it to go backwards luckily not smashing into the car behind me. I had adrenaline rushing and looked at the screen and shifted into drive. Later on I recall not hearing the reverse sound nor did I see the reverse camera. This is the most frightening FSD experience so far. I have it captured on dashcam, not sure who to send to.

It sounds like an unintended consequence of the right stalk tap-up-to-cancel action. The following comments are not meant to criticize you, just to have you think about the sequence of control actions. The fact that the stalk can be used for several different things can create confusion:

• Canceling out of FSD / Autosteer can be done with a half-push up-tap; a full push up is only required when you want to go into Reverse. I think a single up-tap will initially put you into TACC and then a second half-tap will cancel AP entirely.
• I believe you can only shift from Drive into Reverse if your foot is on the brake pedal (sorry I didn't go out to the car to absolutely confirm this). And if your foot is on the brake pedal it means that FSD / Autopilot modes have already been completely canceled.

So I'm guessing that you pressed the brake pedal, and then used the stalk in an attempt to disengage FSD which was already disengaged, and furthermore pushed all the way up instead of a half-tap, which is how you ended up in Reverse.

Again I'm not writing this to imply that there's anything wrong with you. The fact that there are multiple uses of the stalk and multiple methods of disengaging, can combine to produce this unintended behavior. It might be good if Tesla gave at least a quiet beep beep kind of sound that we all now associate with vehicles in Reverse.

 

[lolder]

Only one 1/2 upstroke cancels everything. Full upstroke required for reverse and can be done while going forward at less than 3 mph (5?).

 

[FSDtester#1]

Anyone have FSD go in reverse without warning? I canceled FSD and about to make a left turn red light waiting for green. As soon as it changes green I hit the gas pedal and it goes in reverse and give me and my wife a surprise whip lash not expecting it to go backwards luckily not smashing into the car behind me. I had adrenaline rushing and looked at the screen and shifted into drive. Later on I recall not hearing the reverse sound nor did I see the reverse camera. This is the most frightening FSD experience so far. I have it captured on dashcam, not sure who to send to.

I have noticed if you hit the brake now while the car is in "hold" it puts you in neutral...anyone else see this?

 

[Supcom]

• Canceling out of FSD / Autosteer can be done with a half-push up-tap; a full push up is only required when you want to go into Reverse. I think a single up-tap will initially put you into TACC and then a second half-tap will cancel AP entirely.
• I believe you can only shift from Drive into Reverse if your foot is on the brake pedal (sorry I didn't go out to the car to absolutely confirm this). And if your foot is on the brake pedal it means that FSD / Autopilot modes have already been completely canceled.

One half tap up fully cancels FSD, AP, TACC, etc.

You can shift directly from Drive to Reverse without stopping or having your foot on the brake so long as you are below 5 mph or so. This would cancel FSD.

I would hope that engaging FSD while in reverse would be a major bug.