10.9 FSD

[EVJAutoJunkie]

I think the bigger picture behind this concern is not on the technology, but the fact that Tesla made the decision to document a feature that breaks laws in certain states.

There is no defined length of time you must be stopped at a stop sign for. As long as you come to a complete stop before driving forwards, you have not broken any laws. Therefore, by Tesla's admission of this feature, it does not adhere to what a vehicle must do at a stop sign. Some of us have been pulled over enough times and given the excuse that no other car was around at the time of the moving violation infraction. However, it does not negate the fact that we did not follow the law.

Tesla could have been smarter by marketing it as an "energy saving stop" and left out the part that blatantly admits it is breaking a law.

 

[planetary]

Or, Tesla could have just made rolling stops an option in settings -- and let drivers decide to enable it or not based on where they are, modeling what happens in the real world.

 

[MYoohMY]

anybody else’s car farting at them when they open the doors? Firmware 44.30.10

My “emissions testing” is turned off but if I open any door on the car it loudly farts at me. While it has been funny a couple times, days of my car farting every time I open a door is getting old. Wondering if it’s this last update or just an issue with my car…

 

[drtimhill]

Weird - FSD rolls every stop for me when no other cars are around (and the rest of the things are true: <30 mph speed limits, etc.), and I'm always set to the Chill FSD profile. Usually it's around 2-3 mph, but sometimes 5-6 mph.

I don't understand why the NHTSA is calling this a safety issue. For one, it's slightly less energy usage, resulting in less power generation emissions that have their own safety issues. However, it's really only unsafe if you believe the limitations on the rolling stop feature were insufficient, or you believe the car can't reliably determine if the conditions at this stop sign are within those limitations. The limitations seem pretty iron clad to me, and even if that was what the NHTSA took issue with, the solution is to adjust those conditions, not remove the feature. Therefore, the argument is that FSD can't reliably determine if the conditions are in line with those limitations.

The problem is that making that determination uses the same inputs and processing that are used for the entire rest of the driving task (i.e. where do I / don't I see cars/VRU's/static objects, what will they do in the near future, and how confident am I in those observations/predictions). So, if rolling stops can't be done "safely" because that perception is unreliable, then neither can any other driving assistance task (yes there's a human backup, but that's the same for stop signs and regular driving). If regular driving is "unsafe" with ADAS like FSD, then the NHTSA should be outlawing all driver assistance tech, which would prevent us from getting over this phase of development to the obviously massively-safer future where robo-cars are much safer than human-operated cars.

So at the very least, considering only the rolling stops feature of FSD unsafe is irrational, and at worst, it leads to a line of thinking that is much, much less safe in the long run.

NHTSA are dinosaurs .. the thinking is its dangerous for AV because it is for people. Next they will introduce sobriety tests for AV cars

 

[Twiglett]

Or, Tesla could have just made rolling stops an option in settings -- and let drivers decide to enable it or not based on where they are, modeling what happens in the real world.

exactly this. Embedding the choice in amongst other completely legal things is the stupidest decision.
Probably why there hasn't been any complaint so far about being able to set a speed higher than the speed limit.

 

[Robotpedlr]

exactly this. Embedding the choice in amongst other completely legal things is the stupidest decision.
Probably why there hasn't been any complaint so far about being able to set a speed higher than the speed limit.

I thought it was already a choice (picking aggressive profile or not..)?

 

[Daniel in SD]

NHTSA are dinosaurs .. the thinking is its dangerous for AV because it is for people. Next they will introduce sobriety tests for AV cars

A person is monitoring and responsible for the prototype AV so it's still subject to human limitations.
Of course this raises the question of how one can safely test superhuman capabilities if a human needs to be capable of taking over?

I think people are missing the obvious reason for the California stop feature, it's getting a lot of publicity! And it's good for the narrative that the media and regulators are out to get Tesla.

 

[drtimhill]

I think people are missing the obvious reason for the California stop feature, it's getting a lot of publicity! And it's good for the narrative that the media and regulators are out to get Tesla.

Well yes, there is that of course.

 

[Twiglett]

I thought it was already a choice (picking aggressive profile or not..)?

The choice is chill, average or assertive, usually assertive does not mean aggressive.
The choice is a bunch of perfectly normal and legal driving maneuvers, but they throw is something that isn't legal and will get you pulled over.

I'm betting the recall isn't so much about the stopping, but that they lumped the option in with a bunch a normal, safe driving style options.
It would have been so easy to add it as a separate option like they did for toll lanes, but I guess they took the easiest way because it was beta. That was fine for the first 3-4000 testers but less so when it hit the general population of new beta testers.

Most of the time I have mine on average as assertive has too much of a fetish with the left lane
Personally I have never had my car even get close to a rolling stop, five second stops are more the norm

 

[israndy]

Yeah, rather disappointed that I haven't seen a CRS on my 10.8.1 install, perhaps I need to drive at dawn before people get on the road...

 

[Dan D.]

I thought it was already a choice (picking aggressive profile or not..)?

This is a common misperception. Rolling stops are listed in both Average and Assertive modes. TMC Forum users have been saying it does it in Chill mode for them too. So not a choice, all modes.

Still unclear why some users say it never rolls for them at all?

 

[MountainRatMat]

This is a common misperception. Rolling stops are listed in both Average and Assertive modes. TMC Forum users have been saying it does it in Chill mode for them too. So not a choice, all modes.

Still unclear why some users say it never rolls for them at all?

It is situational. If all criteria are satisfied only then will it roll the stop. I have a T intersection right by my house that has no stop sign yet the car comes to a complete stop like there is a stop sign every time. It is on a pretty steep hill and I've noticed FSD has trouble in my neighborhood with the variable terrain.

 

[JulienW]

An easy way this could have been avoided is had Tesla NEVER listed it but just did it in the Assertive Profile. It is SPELLING it out that got then in hot water. The statement saying "I RUN STOP SIGNS" is the problem.

 

[Discoducky]

No they keep delaying my service visit. Still bricked on two of our cars.

Update: My 2021 Model 3 received V10.10 last night. My 2017 Model X is still on 10.7

 

[Ruffles]

An easy way this could have been avoided is had Tesla NEVER listed it but just did it in the Assertive Profile. It is SPELLING it out that got then in hot water. The statement saying "I RUN STOP SIGNS" is the problem.

True but it they hadn't spelled it out and someone had their car roll a stop, they would have flipped out and claimed the sky was falling. I think they should have just included some details about the conditions when it could happen.

 

[PACEMD]

Next they will introduce sobriety tests for AV cars

Good thing, too. Pretty sure FSD-beta has been driving mine to drinking.........I'm gonna have to go back to driving that hot rod Lincoln........

 

[pilotSteve]

anybody else’s car farting at them when they open the doors? Firmware 44.30.10

My “emissions testing” is turned off but if I open any door on the car it loudly farts at me. While it has been funny a couple times, days of my car farting every time I open a door is getting old. Wondering if it’s this last update or just an issue with my car…

I would open a NHTSA complaint….. or mybe EPA?

 

[PACEMD]

FSD Robotaxi........your designated drunk driver........

 

[Dan D.]

FSD Robotaxi........your designated drunk driver........

At the moment I'd say FSD is your drunk designated driver, or is that what you meant also!?

 

[PACEMD]

At the moment I'd say FSD is your drunk designated driver, or is that what you meant also!?

Well, after a few too many it's all the same, isn't it? I've programmed mine to say........"I......have......not......touched.....a......drop......Occifer".........