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10 amp charging better or worse?

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Logticom

2010 Roadster | 2015 Model S | 2019 Model 3
Supporting Member
Jul 19, 2018
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Zwolle The Netherlands
hi, is 10 amp charging better or worse than 16 amp charging (with 230 volt)? and why?

since the front fans come on more often at 16 amp charging i have been setting the amps back to 10 amps a lot so i dont have the noise when i am sitting outside...

i am thinking about doing this more often in summer. but i am curious if it is better or worse for my battery.

gr,
marcel
 
hi, is 10 amp charging better or worse than 16 amp charging (with 230 volt)? and why?

since the front fans come on more often at 16 amp charging i have been setting the amps back to 10 amps a lot so i dont have the noise when i am sitting outside...

i am thinking about doing this more often in summer. but i am curious if it is better or worse for my battery.

gr,
marcel
My research indicates that lower amperage is a bit better for the battery lifetime. Not exact numbers, but lower amperage might increase lifetime from something like 80,000 miles (mostly depends on depth of discharge that you typically do) to 82, 000 miles. However, the longer duration of charging results in you paying more to the power company for the same amount of juice getting into the battery, due to losses for running the components that do the charging. Generally, my research indicates that so long as charging amps are less than 40A, there's really not much impact to battery lifetime for lowering below that.
 
So this is a question in the Roadster section, and they have a 56kw battery and I don't know how the battery chemistry compares to the S X 3 but those have bigger batteries and therefore could charge at higher amperage for the same level of charging per cell.

Regardless AC charging is done at such a low level per cell amperage settings are not such a big deal at least on the. S X 3 and I believe the 80 vs 82k lifespan guess stated might be in the direction of the trend if there is one on the Roadster but I have a hard time believing it would be an over 2% difference that would be huge.

HCWC are suggested installed at 90 amps so they can support 72amp charging on capable cars or have circuit capacity for load sharing later, overkill is better than redoing things later.
 
Any reason most charger installer suggest 90A circuit for outlet or for the Tesla High Performance Charger then?
I would guess there are two reasons: first, the higher the amps, the more expensive the wiring is, the more money installers will make on that. But the other reason is: if you are investing in a wall charging adapter, why not max out on the charging rate? You never know what you would need down the road.

(P.S. I am not familiar with the Roadster charging equipment or its amp requirements)
 
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Battery health is more closely related to heat than charge rate. The air conditioning will not activate below 13 amps. So, you’re keeping the fans off but allowing the battery to heat up. The higher amperage will be much better for your battery.
This is the right answer.^^^^ Even at the maximum charging rate of 70A it isn't enough to affect cell lifetime. Far more important is heat. At the lowest amperage options the HVAC system will not cool the battery as much. Not related to cell health, but it's also true that the charging system is more efficient above 32A, so it uses less energy per mile of charging.
 
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My research seems to indicate that the biggest thing that impacts battery lifetime (lifetime defined as runtime approximately 80% of what it is new. For us, estimated or ideal range after a charge) is depth of charge with 90% depth of discharge (DoD) resulting in about 50% lifetime compared to 10% depth of charge for LiOn cells. My calculations indicate that if you could live with 10% DoD you would probably get 160000 miles on a pack (assuming all good cells) and if you needed 90% DoD you would probably get 80000 on a pack.

My research also indicates that the charging amps doesn't significantly impact battery lifetime (Subjective what that means, but something like 2000 miles on 80000 miles, which to me subjectively, is not significant enough to drive any decisions about whether or not to use lower amperage. To others, 2k on 80k miles can be significant.)

From a what you pay to the power company standpoint, I currently only have 120V circuit and until I can get 240V installed (soon I hope) I can say that I consistently use about 9kWh per day driving (usually about 80% SOC when I start charging, for about 40m commute with the Roadster) and when I charge, VDS consistently shows that it is costing me 17kW to get back up to 98-99% SOC on a standard charge in about 10 hours. To me, this means that the PEM and fans on the Roadster that are continuously in use during charging consume about 800 W/h to do whatever they do. So, to me, it seems that each hour that you reduce the time that you spend charging, you save paying for 800W/h to the power company.

My research and analysis also indicates that charging efficiency increases until you get up to about 32A, then it decreases, but not that much, so there's not a huge cost penalty if you need to charge faster but it is a little less efficient.

I just purchased my Roadster about 3 weeks ago (#543) and I'm getting a second estimate from an electrician for 240V this week. I've purchased UMC (which is limited to 32A) and CAN SR, and I'm asking for quotes for 50A and 100A circuits with 50A breakers. I don't (think that I) need the 70A that car can take, but if it doesn't cost that much more to install 100A wires (2-3 gauge vs 4-6 gauge. I need an 80 ft run from where the power enters my house to the garage) and if I have the right wires, I can later change from UMC to HPWC if I change my mind about how long I want it to take to charge by just changing the breaker.

If I have the bigger wires and circuit capability, I can decide later, easily, whether I want to upgrade to HPWC and charge more quickly. If I don't have the bigger wires, I'll need to get new wires run at that time, if I decide that I want to charge faster.

At present, I typically drive 40m per day back and forth to work, which means that even with 120V/15A, I can fill the 20% SOC that I use overnight (10-12 hrs). With 240V / 32A, I'll be able to that in 2-3 hours or do a full standard charge from about empty overnight. So, if the premium for 100A circuit capability, isn't very much I'll pop for it. But if it's a big step up, due to the more difficult challenge of running 80ft of 2-3 gauge wire, I'll skip it, since my driving habits don't really need the extra (and... 32A seems to be optimal for maximizing charging efficiency and minimizing payments to the power company).

In short.... figure out what you subjectively need or want and is best for you and do that, but don't worry too much about what is best for the battery.. but, guidelines for being nice to the battery:

1. charge as often as is convenient (minimize depth of charge)... per manual, plug in when not driving.
2. charge as slowly (lower amps) as is needed to meet whatever you need to do (maximizing battery life may or may not be your priority).
3. If you are adding new circuit anyway, make it as large as you feel like paying for. If you have the higher capability, you don't have to use it.
4. If you can't get the biggest, for whatever reason, don't sweat it. Most likely it won't make any difference, unless you drive a lot of miles per day, or never sleep and need to drive 24x7.

Enjoy the car...... that's what it's about.
 
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hi, is 10 amp charging better or worse than 16 amp charging (with 230 volt)? and why?

since the front fans come on more often at 16 amp charging i have been setting the amps back to 10 amps a lot so i dont have the noise when i am sitting outside...

i am thinking about doing this more often in summer. but i am curious if it is better or worse for my battery.

gr,
marcel
10A is going to be a little better than 16A. Why would one be better than the other, 16A is better if you need to charge faster.
Is it going to matter, maybe in 10 years.
 
thank you, I'm quite pleased with the car and especially with the adoption process led by HSull8915 and DeedWest and the care poured into the car by them before that. Two, really, really great TMC podners in the Lone Star state.

Doing my own tinkering and learning now (charging stuff learning above, which comes a bit from a SMART EV that I leased for 3 years, and some other things).
 
10A is going to be a little better than 16A. Why would one be better than the other, 16A is better if you need to charge faster.
Is it going to matter, maybe in 10 years.
More important is that the lower charging current doesn't activate the battery cooling. If you have just arrived home, in the summer, and the car is figuratively and physically panting from the heat, you really want the battery cooling to come on. So given the universal desire to keep the battery cool, it's better to use a higher current than to try to game the system and eek out a few extra km over the next decade. You're not going to notice the extra range, and in fact may be defeating the perceived benefit of lower charge current by not letting the car manage its battery the way the engineers intended.

I used to run a cycle where I charged mainly at work (it was free, and I was being cheap), and ran from work to home to work (about 50 miles total) between charges. But when I got home the system was hot, and wouldn't go to sleep, so it ran the pump all night. That put extra wear on the pump, and used more power overall. The work-around was to give the car a 30-45 minute "Range" charge (which puts a focus on cooling first), to get the temps down, then stop the charging before spending too much of my home electricity. I was on the dryer plug at the time, so charging was at the default 24 amps.

Now that I'm retired and have upgraded from the dryer plug to a real 14-50, I still dial-down the charging to 24 amps. This is to be sure that I allow the car to fully manage its temperature, while being "nice" to the charging infrastructure (EVSE, wiring, outlet connections, etc). I read somewhere that the "sweet spot" for charging efficiency is somewhere in the 24 to 32 amp range, so 24 it is. The car just remains plugged in at all times, and battery temps remain excellent (in the 20's C).
 
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I started another thread (somewhere) re low power (under 10kW) charging. Surprised, when i asked if anyone does low power 240V charging, & the larger consensus was that it was kinda lame (or some other less inflammatory word). Anyway - i can't help but notice that charging overnight less than 40 miles, at 5 amps seems to stop the damnable parasitic loss. So that's what we do.
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For my usage, I connect up an 240v charger to get the AC to kick on and cool down ESS (if the pack is warm), then after the pack is cooled down, I then unplug and plug in at 120v at slowest charge rate. This accomplishes three things, the pack stays cool as I live in cool place, and charge rate is low enough not to heat up the ESS. Also now on 120v I don't do wear and tear on the air conditioner system as it will not kick on, additionally the charging components are under less load and will last longer. btw in this setup I don't care about efficiently, just minimal stress on all components with an cooled ESS to extend life of all things. Note this might wear the ESS's fans down faster, but it's one of the easiest things to service compared to the other components. But it might not either as it doesn't spin up the ESS's Fan very high at all compared to 240v charging. The pump does wear faster as it's on longer, but it's also one of the more easier to service parts compared to the AC system (in my view).
 
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