10+ minutes to start my "old" tesla is just an inconvenience b/c I chose to do the eMMC recall and install firmware updates

[Cybermoose]

To my mind, having to replace a PC or a tablet after 5 or 6 years is quite a different situation from having to replace a car that cost $80,000 or more after a similar period of time. The PC is only a PC, and it can be recycled more or less easily and economically. Not so much the car. The car has thousands of components that are still working just fine (or can be more or less easily replaced or repaired) in addition to the computer parts that might have reached the end of their usable lives. If the firmware updates are making the situation worse, then it seems to me that Tesla should either make those optional after a certain period, OR should say that replacement of the computer hardware is mandatory if you want certain services such as firmware updates. Tesla has been clear that we must update our firmware but they have not been clear about the hardware side. As usual, communication and customer relations are at the bottom of Tesla's skill sets.

It was stated in this post that the update in question was optional.

Also no one is saying that replacing the car is necessary, just the MCU hardware. Also even a computer doesn't NEED to be replaced after 5-6 years, if someone takes it to a computer shop or is good with computers themselves, they can likely replace 1-2 parts and their computer will be working fine again. I built computers for friends and updated them for years. A friend of mine had the same computer with just a few replaced parts over the time of about 10+ years.

If we look at almost anything that has a computer in it that recieves regular updates, it won't last more than 5 or so years before it starts to get slow. Smart home systems (depending on complexity), personal computers, tablets, phones, now car systems, and i'm sure tons of people have worked in factories where the old equipment runs very slow with the old computers.

 

[siteexperts]

The update was the NHTSA recall (eMCC fix). Tesla claims doing a government endorsed recall is my choice although they sent all impacted owners a letter telling them to get the recall - there was no warnings in the government issued recall. And they knew it could degrade the car but never warned me. They even admitted that they reflashed the firmware without giving me a choice but I assume the risk if the firmware upgrade degrades the car. They also admitted this issue has persisted for many months on random vehicles. If anywhere in a release note they said your car might not be drivable for up to 10 minutes I would not apply it.

Today the car wouldn’t start for 4 minutes (after not starting yesterday for 6 minutes) with completely different symptoms.

Would you expect a recall to make your car less safe? I noticed when the car finally lets me drive the reverse sensor are sometimes not yet functional - pretty important safety feature - and some of the settings seem to change (walk away locks somehow became turned off).

 

[Cybermoose]

I don't recall anytime i've updated any device to be told that the system might become slower. This isn't something that any company that I know of has ever put as some warning before clicking the update button for any product.

I'm not saying don't be upset or annoyed, *sugar* sucks, the world isn't always going to be optimal. The thing that i'm arguing is that Tesla has done nothing wrong here. You are saying that you bought a car, not a computer, and you want the car to remain functional when everything else is functioning perfect fine except the computer. My argument is that you bought a computer with wheels. You bought a car from the company that makes the most technologically advanced vehicles in the world, controlled almost entirely by a computer with very few other buttons or levers compared to traditional vehicles.

This isn't an isolated thing happening to just Tesla or just certain industries. This is something that is becoming more and more common in the world as countless things that didn't used to have updating software is beginning to.

If this is a huge issue, I'd recommend selling and getting a car that doesn't get updated. you get what you get when you buy it and it remains the same until the day that the car itself dies. However if you want the advanced technology of a Tesla, and the goodies that come with updates, the hardware will eventually become outdated and that hardware controls basically everything, so everything gets slower.

 

[Boeingpilot]

Agree with the OP. Bottom line. Memory chip upgrade was required. Updating firmware wasn’t

 

[jgs]

I had the recall done. Some (weeks? months?) later I noticed similar symptoms to what OP reports -- unacceptable freezes, getting progressively worse. Some of these are safety-relevant, for example the reverse cam failing to engage for minutes on end after putting the car in reverse. I also have a 2015 car with MCU1.

It's at the Service Center now. We had some back-and-forth before I dropped it off, and I refused to pre-approve an estimate for a $1500 "infotainment upgrade". My position is that I want the car restored to basic acceptable functionality, responsiveness equal (or at least equivalent) to what it was before. I have a service contract that I paid good money for, that says they're obligated to provide that, minus the $200 deductible. If they choose to fix the car by upgrading the MCU, that's on them, I don't care if they upgrade it or replace it with another MCU1, as long as the problems go away. If they give me an MCU2 I probably wouldn't even raise hell about losing my FM radio, even though it would mildly irk me. (Yes I know I can stream everything but I have to put up with an ad before my stream starts, it's annoying.)

It's clearly a hardware problem, I didn't install any firmware upgrades between when the car performed normally and now. But even if it were a side-effect of installing newer firmware, it really doesn't matter. It's a car. It's not OK for the manufacturer to semi-brick it with an OTA update. I know very well from my own professional life that dealing with a large installed base of obsolescent CPUs whose owners have service contracts is a huge PITA. Tough luck. You maintain multiple software trains, give them free hardware upgrades, or whatever it takes, that's what it means to play in the big leagues. Choice of solution is a business decision, but telling the customer "too bad so sad" isn't one of the options, at least not if you intend on getting repeat business, staying out of court, and staying off the regulators' radar.

Anyway, jury still out on what will happen in my case -- the SC just tried again to get me to approve the $1500 "upgrade" and I referred them to the SC manager who I spoke with before. We shall see. One potential point of escalation would be a NHTSA report if they choose not to fix the problem -- like I said, some of this stuff is safety-relevant. But with luck they'll DTRT and escalation won't be required.

ETA: an interesting tidbit in the service estimate, emphasis added:

"Concern: Performed diagnosis of vehicle, found high memory usage in computer system. Vehicle is equipped with Tegra operating hardware and has memory upgrade installed. Compared customer concerns with known Info-Tegra characteristics, currently under investigation for later updates. Recommend upgrading to Info-Atom hardware for increased operating speed and computing capabilities."

Supports the idea they know it's broken and they know they broke it. "Characteristics", heh.

 

[seclinton]

Hold on hold on. Tesla service is full of idiots who wrote shitty SOPs for repair. I know this is my Wife's model X story, but this just happened 2022 in May. Upgraded to MCU2 and radio. Idiots at Tesla didn't close up the system properly (couldn't close the center console door), TPMS, lights and Radio weren't functioning for a $2500 upgrade. Absolute crap post repair diagnostics and performance checks.

Fuse F236 was blown. New fuse fixed that and hiding the diag port wires under the MCU behind the cubby was required post repair.

That's TWO (2) issues post repair they messed up. That's crappy work period.

Save some time and check the fuse blocks for a blown fuse. The car is wired like a drunkard ran the wires while partying on the roof of the Gigafactory during a BBQ fire.

 

[siteexperts]

If you file a complaint with the nhtsa feel free to reference file #504485. I filed a complaint a few weeks ago especially after I realized the car was sometimes in a state where I was able to start driving but the reverse sensors were inactive. I have no idea what other issues may be happening related to the computer being semi-bricked and no longer fully trust the car. All of this started immediately after the recall and is a known issue.

At this point I dissuade anyone considering a Tesla for long term ownership. I was going to order a model y performance and later this year a plaid model s. Instead I have a deposit on the BMW i4M50 and am waiting to see the lucid air. I’ve given up on Tesla as a premium car company. Its great there is real competition and more and more alternatives. I loved my car but as a company they have been the worst to deal with.

 

[jgs]

Thanks, I will do so if necessary.

I haven't given up on the company, but I will certainly factor the outcome of this experience into future buying decisions.

 

[Creeble]

I was happy with the existing functionality with the cars functionality and due to the age of the car/ hardware wouldn’t care if my firmware was frozen. Right now I feel blackmailed into spending 2k upgrading the mcu. Car was perfectly functional until the eMMC recall was done - and the party line was because I chose to do a recall.

I have to largely agree.

My eMMC replacement went fine - everything was much faster (except the web browser, which was still inexplicably slow and nearly useless), USB music was magically fixed, and no more weekly reboots and weird hangs.

But then my IC screen starting bleeding goo down the front, eventually obscuring the battery indicator. And the brand new center screen they gave me with the eMMC upgrade (I have no idea why, the old screen had no defects) got brown edges.

So I was effectively forced into an MCU2 upgrade (only a a few hundred dollars more than the price of just the IC screen replacement), and now I get to endure their lame engineering (not the SC's fault) to get TuneIn back (apparently some missing security certificates that were not part of the upgrade procedure). And now USB music doesn't remember what was playing when the car starts, like my old MCU1 did. So the only detectable "upgrade" so far is my Web browser is faster. Hopefully they'll fix TuneIn, but the USB music problem I hear is still broken.

I like the thought of upgradability - but it needs to come with reliable software engineering, and I have lost all faith that Tesla has it. I don't generally lose features when my phone or tablet upgrades, and if something breaks from an upgrade, the outcry is loud and a fix is imminent.

By comparison, Tesla blames software issues on the customers that were responsible for their early success, treating the owners of 6-8yo cars like they own a 1980's tractor.

 

[aesculus]

And the brand new center screen they gave me with the eMMC upgrade (I have no idea why, the old screen had no defects) got brown edges.

And why do you not think that the MCU2 upgrade display won't yellow either? They clearly haven't done anything here other than doing the UV treatment it seems.

 

[Creeble]

And why do you not think that the MCU2 upgrade display won't yellow either? They clearly haven't done anything here other than doing the UV treatment it seems.

Yeah, I'm certainly concerned about it. I think they come with 6mo warranty? If so, I could have had them replace it, but I'd still be stuck with my slimed IC display ($1500 I think they quoted), so I popped for the MCU2 upgrade instead.

 

[5StarAdvisor]

I had similar issues with our 11/13 built S85. Before June 2019, everything seemed great with the software and functions of the car. Post June 2019:

• Supercharging sessions started taking longer (along with slightly reduced range)
• 3G cellular connectivity started dropping at startup (until recently, it would not connect about 25% of the time)
• Slacker started to lockup, MCU would freeze, temp display would show "--F"

Tesla offered to upgrade the 8GB eMMC board so I took them up on that. The system seemed to function smoother than before, but cellular connectivity would continue to drop, and the system would freeze at startup. I'd have to do a reboot which would take about 5-10 minutes before I could get my car to start moving. That's when I decided to just upgrade to MCU2 in hopes that my issues would be resolved. To date, LTE cellular has dropped a few times but reconnects on its own, I haven't experienced an MCU freeze, and the system runs just as smooth as the old V8.

Similar problems on my 12/2013 MS60 and after 2 replaced MCUs …

 

[Gumball]

MCU 2 resolved all my problems for 2014 S, smooth and fast operation, even the browser is sort of useabl.

 

[NewbyMaybe]

V11 update is pretty good so far.

 

[gadgetfreak]

I have a 2015 Model S purchased used from Tesla in January 2018. For more than a year I have complained to Tesla about the delay.
The MCU has been replaced once or twice. The car has had more service issues than I can count. The used car warranty expired last month and this was supposed to be resolved but they “couldn’t reproduce it.”
I refuse to pay for an “infotainment upgrade” to have a reliable vehicle. I have modified every setting they suggested and the problem persists. Multiple times a month, I get in the car to go somewhere and it takes 10-20 minutes before the car
becomes operational. Either the display is unresponsive or it’s just black.
Does anyone know of a lawyer who’d be willing to help me sue Tesla about this? I have pages of correspondence with them about it. I’m probably going to trade it in for another car soon. I’m just so frustrated disappointed & disgusted. It doesn’t help that I work retail and have to clock in at a job and need to add an extra 20 minutes to my day to get to work on time.

 

[ucmndd]

I have a 2015 Model S purchased used from Tesla in January 2018. For more than a year I have complained to Tesla about the delay.
The MCU has been replaced once or twice. The car has had more service issues than I can count. The used car warranty expired last month and this was supposed to be resolved but they “couldn’t reproduce it.”
I refuse to pay for an “infotainment upgrade” to have a reliable vehicle. I have modified every setting they suggested and the problem persists. Multiple times a month, I get in the car to go somewhere and it takes 10-20 minutes before the car
becomes operational. Either the display is unresponsive or it’s just black.
Does anyone know of a lawyer who’d be willing to help me sue Tesla about this? I have pages of correspondence with them about it. I’m probably going to trade it in for another car soon. I’m just so frustrated disappointed & disgusted. It doesn’t help that I work retail and have to clock in at a job and need to add an extra 20 minutes to my day to get to work on time.

1) Pay for the infotainment upgrade.

2) Sue Tesla in small claims court for reimbursement. No lawyer necessary.

How to sue Tesla over historical claims

I sued Tesla in small claims and won. Twice! You can too. I had two claims: I have a car with AP2.5. Tesla advertised this car as having “all hardware needed for full self driving capability.” When I went to subscribe to “Full Self Driving Capability,” Tesla required a $1,000 hardware upgrade...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[siteexperts]

I have a 2015 Model S purchased used from Tesla in January 2018. For more than a year I have complained to Tesla about the delay.
The MCU has been replaced once or twice. The car has had more service issues than I can count. The used car warranty expired last month and this was supposed to be resolved but they “couldn’t reproduce it.”
I refuse to pay for an “infotainment upgrade” to have a reliable vehicle. I have modified every setting they suggested and the problem persists. Multiple times a month, I get in the car to go somewhere and it takes 10-20 minutes before the car
becomes operational. Either the display is unresponsive or it’s just black.
Does anyone know of a lawyer who’d be willing to help me sue Tesla about this? I have pages of correspondence with them about it. I’m probably going to trade it in for another car soon. I’m just so frustrated disappointed & disgusted. It doesn’t help that I work retail and have to clock in at a job and need to add an extra 20 minutes to my day to get to work on time.

I am just getting rid of the car. I'm never buying a Tesla again.

I spent over $250K on Tesla's (P85D with ludicrous and Model X ludicrous which I luckily sold immediately because of other Tesla issues). They no longer care or support their customers. I love how the Tesla drove, but can't work with a company that attempts to blame their customers for every issue. Luckily there are now many very good and possibly better alternatives.

I was a advocate for Tesla - convinced dozens of people to buy a Tesla in their earlier days. Now, I warn everyone; if you must get a Tesla, do not keep the car more than a few years and be wary of installing any updates if your car has anything other than the latest hardware (disable wifi so you can hopefully control updates from getting installed).

Really sad....

 

[vcor]

...And now USB music doesn't remember what was playing when the car starts, like my old MCU1 did.

MCU2 and MCUZ have been this way for years. I believe this was done to conserve power and extend the range a tiny bit. I really like the auto-play feature in MCU1. Ok, there is one trick that goes halfway. Use the Voice command "USB" and it will start where it left off. Never found any way to do this on-screen as you have to start over making a selection otherwise. This works with MCUZ, but I think it works with MCU2 as well.

 

[italian bread]

I am just getting rid of the car. I'm never buying a Tesla again.

I spent over $250K on Tesla's (P85D with ludicrous and Model X ludicrous which I luckily sold immediately because of other Tesla issues). They no longer care or support their customers. I love how the Tesla drove, but can't work with a company that attempts to blame their customers for every issue. Luckily there are now many very good and possibly better alternatives.

I was a advocate for Tesla - convinced dozens of people to buy a Tesla in their earlier days. Now, I warn everyone; if you must get a Tesla, do not keep the car more than a few years and be wary of installing any updates if your car has anything other than the latest hardware (disable wifi so you can hopefully control updates from getting installed).

Really sad....

It’s not just an inconvenience (which is bad enough), not being able to drive right away could be disastrous. Imagine if we had to take someone to the emergency room? Or escaping a wildfire in the middle of the night? Some might dismiss these ”long-shot” scenarios, but we have smoke detectors and burglar alarms for similar what-if scenarios.

 

[ucmndd]

It’s not just an inconvenience (which is bad enough), not being able to drive right away could be disastrous. Imagine if we had to take someone to the emergency room? Or escaping a wildfire in the middle of the night? Some might dismiss these ”long-shot” scenarios, but we have smoke detectors and burglar alarms for similar what-if scenarios.

If you have pearl-clutching safety concerns, then take matters into your own hands and either fix or sell the car. Seems pretty simple. This isn’t something to rely on someone else for.

If you think you have a claim against Tesla then pay for the upgrade and seek reimbursement in small claims like @gearchruncher did, there’s a good shot you’ll win.