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100% = 370 rated miles? Or not ....

PDX_Magesh

Member
Aug 6, 2019
47
19
Beaverton, OR
Hello:

Hopefully someone can tell me if I should be concerned or not.

Sept 2019 build Long range shows 364 miles after charging 100% at home (14-50). The car is (was) brand new when I picked it up a month back & I saw the same loss about 3 weeks back. Tesla service told me "it takes time" to calibrate, etc.

After that I have driven about 1000 miles & have done several 80% & 90% charges, but never full. I decided to do that yesterday, hoping I'll see the full 370 rated miles. But instead it showed 364 miles.

And add to the misery, I lost 3 rated miles in 2.5 hours. The car is in the garage (~55 degrees) & still plugged in; climate control is off; pre conditioning is off; no power draw on the USB ports (except sentry, which is off since I'm @ home.).

FYI, if this matters, I'm using approx 350wh/mile over the last week or so.

Any input will be appreciated.

TiA.

Moderator: I searched this subgroup & could not find a similar thread. If one exists, please point me there & feel free to merge this into that.
 

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ewoodrick

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2018
5,285
4,269
Buford, GA
Yep, that's pretty common. You have not lost any range. The battery is still good. You are just seeing differences in calculation.

Check any of the probably thousands (okay, maybe hundreds) of threads on the same subject.

My suggestion, take a long trip. That helps get over your range anxiety. I don't even think about range or charging anymore, just as I didn't think about the MPG or filling the tank in my other cars.
 

PDX_Magesh

Member
Aug 6, 2019
47
19
Beaverton, OR
No range anxiety since we have already taken a couple of day trips. Its a peeve that's all,

Tesla is advertising a range and touting the same; but the 100% charge does not reflect it in my case. AW, it just looks like false advertising on their part & now the Tesla configuration shows 373 miles for a Long Range!!!

Yeah, read up on other threads as well.

Oh well.
 
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Wyomingtim

Member
Jul 24, 2018
101
136
Hoback, Wyoming
No range anxiety since we have already taken a couple of day trips. Its a peeve that's all,

Tesla is advertising a range and touting the same; but the 100% charge does not reflect it in my case. AW, it just looks like false advertising on their part & now the Tesla configuration shows 373 miles for a Long Range!!!

Yeah, read up on other threads as well.

Oh well.

Your last car didn't get its EPA rated MPG either...
 

Merle

Member
Apr 5, 2019
166
160
Tahoe
Change your display to Energy vs Miles, ignore that 370 number, and go about your day. The miles when full is virtually meaningless and is based upon an arbitrary multiplier anyway. It's equivalent to trying to fill your gas tank up by continuing to fill into the filler neck to get to a "true 100% full tank".

True there. I've carried a spare Rotax container full of gasoline as I've been known to push things to empty. The Rotax is 1 gallon exactly (filled up at Costco consistently) and when I've run out, my next stop is obviously a gas station.

The gas tank supposedly holds 23.0 gallons, but I'll get about 22.5 or 22.6 in there. In aviation, we call this "usable fuel" as there may be room in the filler, sloshing around the bottom, etc. but your engine will die due to starvation even with fuel in the tank.

You won't get the full 23.0 gallons, and you aren't likely to get the full 370 mile range except in ideal conditions (tire pressure, wind, at sea level and at standard temperature, etc.)
 
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Ohmie

Member
Sep 8, 2019
52
21
San Diego, CA
It’s not a defective battery. It’s a misunderstanding of the Monroney label (aka the “sticker”) on your car.

370 is the EPA rated range which is arrived at through their standard test procedure on a dyno. It’s a theoretical number not something you will ever see in real world driving. But by law that’s the only range number Tesla is allowed to advertise.

The reality is your actual range will vary every time you drive the car, depending on a variety of factors. You might actually get more than 370 miles on a charge if, for example, you drive judiciously and after charging at the top of a mountain - assuming you went mostly downhill. Most of the time, however, you’ll get less because the EPA’s procedure produces an optimistic result akin to an old lady driving the car with an egg (she doesn’t want to break) under the accelerator pedal. No offense to old ladies intended...

It’s much like the EPA mpg rating for a new ICE car. You won’t ever attain that number. You’d have to drive unrealistically slow and bordering on catatonic to achieve it. But it’s the only mpg rating manufacturers are allowed to advertise.

PS - Even if your ICE car can hold exactly the amount of gasoline the manufacturer claims, your range will never be equal to the EPA’s mpg x the tank size in gallons. It too will vary due to a multitude of factors.
 
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ucmndd

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2016
6,989
13,777
California
It’s not a defective battery. It’s a misunderstanding of the Monroney label (aka the “sticker”) on your car.

370 is the EPA rated range which is arrived at through their standard test procedure on a dyno. It’s a theoretical number not something you will ever see in real world driving. But by law that’s the only range number Tesla is allowed to advertise.

It’s actually even simpler than that, or complicated depending on how you look at it. It’s nothing more than nominal battery capacity divided by a fixed wh/mi constant derived from the EPA test cycle.

The important part here is “nominal battery capacity”. That’s the expected/observed capacity of a hypothetical reference pack made up with a number of hypothetical reference cells charged to a reference voltage.

In the real world, battery cells vary from that reference spec. Variance over the ~6 to ~8 thousand cells in a Tesla battery pack leads to variance in capacity from unit to unit. Some “100kwh” packs leave the factory with 101kwh. Some are 99kwh. You get the idea. But the wh/mi constant doesn’t change, so some cars charge to 373 when full, and others see 365, despite a “rated capacity” of 370.

And then there’s of course the inconvenient truth that batteries degrade over time, with a relatively steep curve that flattens out after several thousand miles.

All of which to say that 364 estimated rated miles at 100% on a new LR Raven with a couple thousand miles is well within the range of tolerance and expectation. This is an unfortunate part of the learning curve and reset of expectations that owners need to go through when switching to an EV. If you want to see this to the extreme, go visit the Model 3 battery/charging forum. More than half the posts in there are panicked new owners clutching their pearls and clogging up the service centers because their rated range is 1-3% less than advertised/observed when new.
 

Grenadine

Member
Jul 8, 2019
547
567
Brisbane, Australia
...Also bear in mind that fresh Lithium batteries pretty much all lose 3% or so in the first few thousand miles then the degradation 'normalises'. It is inherent in the chemistry. You can prove this by getting a brand new car, charge it to 100% and you will see that the % and miles to go do not change for the first 15 miles or so. Tesla calibrates the measures so it simply does not count this extra range that a fresh battery has.

All of this is perfectly normal but if you observe it it will seem that your fresh car is losing range at a precipitous rate. And I can understand how that might seem concerning. As I say, the rate will readily normalise after the first few thousand miles. Indeed, the first few hundred is where it really loses alot comparatively.
 

ucmndd

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2016
6,989
13,777
California
You can prove this by getting a brand new car, charge it to 100% and you will see that the % and miles to go do not change for the first 15 miles or so. Tesla calibrates the measures so it simply does not count this extra range that a fresh battery has.
lolwut
 

Mediocrates

Member
Apr 16, 2017
372
384
San Diego, CA
It’s much like the EPA mpg rating for a new ICE car. You won’t ever attain that number. You’d have to drive unrealistically slow and bordering on catatonic to achieve it. But it’s the only mpg rating manufacturers are allowed to advertise.

I regularly achieved around EPA ratings on my gasoline vehicles, plus or minus 10% (yes, sometimes exceeding EPA numbers). I never had to drive "slow" to do this...typically at or above speed limits. It's more a matter of driving style and wasted energy that leads to inefficiency. I drove my gas cars in a very similar way to how I've driven my Tesla vehicles with regen.
 

PDX_Magesh

Member
Aug 6, 2019
47
19
Beaverton, OR
Thank you for your responses. To make this simple:
I'm only addressing a full 100% charge at home, which should show me 370 rated miles, as advertised by Tesla. That's it. I have no range anxiety; I'm familiar with EPA ratings (wind, elevation, tire pressure,,...), etc ... Those are not the purview of this thread.

- Sentry mode is off when I'm @ home. Climate control off when the car is locked in the garage. For these tests, I have even unplugged my USB chargers to avoid any qi charging drain, if any.
- The car is plugged into the wall (14-50) and shows me a 100% charge (= 364 miles or 365 miles), when completed.

- As an example, charging at SC yesterday night, to 69% shows 251 miles. Extrapolating this and giving the benefit of doubt to Tesla, as a 68% charge & 251 miles gets me closer to the 'magical' 370 number. (yes it was cold, climate control was on, etc ...)

** The only response from above, that resonated, was the inequality in the batteries & therefore users should expect a 5% variance, either way, on the advertised miles. If Tesla had advertised it as such, I would have been fine. Maybe it did & I did not see the 'fine print'. Or educate users about these possible concerns, that would help as well.

** And secondly, as someone else suggested, is to ignore the miles & go off with the %. I think that is 'more accurate' than miles imho.

AW, thanks again all for your input. I learnt something. Appreciate it. I think it will get better over time.
 

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Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
9,442
8,614
Visalia, CA
...I'm only addressing a full 100% charge at home, which should show me 370 rated miles, as advertised by Tesla...

As others have said, the miles shown are an approximation that is translated from the percentage.

For example, Tesla Model 3 LR AWD was advertised as 310 miles yesterday. But today, it's 322 miles. There's not any change with the battery at all. The change is with the new mile translation from percentage.

Back to your car. 100% should be translated to 370 miles but I would be happy if there's a number approximate to it such as your 361, 364...

The way the translation works is: It needs to know what the top and the bottom charges are.

To do that, you can charge to 100% then run it down to 0%. Be warned that 0% is not good for your battery health and might permanently damage it.

Doing once might not be enough for the re-calibration! You might have to repeat those complete cycles several times for the accuracy of your 100%=370 miles.

But since running down to 0% can be detrimental to your battery, so you might want to settle for the inaccurate 100%=361miles.
 
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KCKD GAS

Member
Nov 1, 2019
14
11
Virginia
For what it's worth, I also have a Sept build Long Range, and I have very nearly the same results as PDX. The first couple of charges (always charged to 80%), I got 296 miles indicated, which would extrapolate to exactly 370 miles at 100% charge, as expected. But over the next 2000 miles or so, my 80% charges now only indicate about 290 miles, plus or minus a mile, which extrapolates to 2% loss in max range (from 370 to 362 miles).

That 2% reduction in max range over the first 2000 miles of ownership bothered me initially. But now after 4000 miles on the odometer, the indicated max range is still within a mile or two of 362 at every charge. I decided to stop worrying about it. I expect it will still degrade a little bit more over time, but hopefully not enough to fret about.
 

dannycamps

Member
Apr 8, 2019
746
673
Northeast USA
To the OP - do you frequently supercharge? Supercharging too often can have negative effects on the battery range and can cause premature degradation.

As a data point, I have a pre-Raven LR with about 10k miles on it now. It was originally rated for 335 miles and when I charge to 100% I usually get 334 or 335. Of course, I'll never actually see that when driving (closer to 290) but still.
 

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