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100% = 370 rated miles? Or not ....
- Thread starter PDX_Magesh
- Start date
Tesomega
Member
You will never get TESLA to address this advertised range issue, they will hide behind all these useless tests that some one has to do get to true range.
As far as battery health goes, the measure is to direct check the KwH capacity, What I have seen in my car with external logger is that the car reports less in KwH in the battery size that directly translates to less rated range.
As others may have already said "don't sweat it" even if it says 370 you will never hit 370 on a day to day use. No matter where you live.
As far as battery health goes, the measure is to direct check the KwH capacity, What I have seen in my car with external logger is that the car reports less in KwH in the battery size that directly translates to less rated range.
As others may have already said "don't sweat it" even if it says 370 you will never hit 370 on a day to day use. No matter where you live.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
Much like I’ll never get Toyota to explain why my Highlander has never achieved anywhere near the rated 27 mpg. It doesn’t matter - the EPA tells them what they advertise, just like they tell Tesla.
Tesomega
Member
There lies the problem with EV - Batteries, a Tank capacity may not change on a ICE, however the battery capacity does due to degradation and that is my point. Also, my understanding is that ICE vehicles does not have an concept of RATED Range.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
EPA MPG x tank capacity would fairly obviously be “rated” range, but I agree the entire way the EPA advertises range is problematic.
Manufacturers certainly need to do a better job explaining what this number means and educating consumers in this new world. It’s obvious by the countless posts on this subject that most people just don’t get it and have expectations that simply aren’t realistic.
I am dealing with the exact same issue as PXD, I have a Sept 13th delivered Raven MS and I was charging to 333 miles regularly at the superchargers. I decided to change to percentage and was shocked to see that 333 was around 90%, I placed a service call to have this looked at and now am worried that my battery might have an issue. Now with that being said, I'm a habitual supercharger, hell with free charging who wouldn't be. If I'm by the chargers in town I'll regularly "top off" because simply put... I can.
Now is this an issue? I think the lowest I've driven it down to was about 50 miles range, have about 2600 miles on the car so far.
But 90% should be 333 but it's not on my car. I read everyone saying to "forget it, and just live with the way it is" but I am with PDX, if I bought a car that is basically a computer, and this computers battery capacity is 370mi range, than 90% should be 333 not less.
Just an issue with buying something that isn't what they are advertising.
I did try to charge it to 100% once within the first 7 days just to see if truly got 370 before my 1 week return period was done, It got to 365 and was taking Sooooooooooooo long to go any higher that I just gave up and left, figured close enough.
Now is this an issue? I think the lowest I've driven it down to was about 50 miles range, have about 2600 miles on the car so far.
But 90% should be 333 but it's not on my car. I read everyone saying to "forget it, and just live with the way it is" but I am with PDX, if I bought a car that is basically a computer, and this computers battery capacity is 370mi range, than 90% should be 333 not less.
Just an issue with buying something that isn't what they are advertising.
I did try to charge it to 100% once within the first 7 days just to see if truly got 370 before my 1 week return period was done, It got to 365 and was taking Sooooooooooooo long to go any higher that I just gave up and left, figured close enough.
I'm confused. Your post says that you were charging to 333, which turned out to be 90%. But then two paragraphs later you say that 90% isn't 333. What is your indicated rated range at 90%?
And again, this is all academic - the range of your car is based upon how you're driving. I can get 450 miles out of my car, or 120 miles, by driving differently. Sure, maybe the battery only has 97kWh instead of 100, but that's just how it works. You bought a car with a ~100kWh battery that's rated under certain laboratory-style conditions at ~270Wh per mile, and no battery degradation warranty. It is what it is and not worth stressing over.
Tesomega
Member
Here are my observations:
- Long drives with multiple supercharger visits, results in degradation.
- It's not just % or miles, the actual kwH reported by the car that is available changes as part of the degradation scale.
- There are several threads, which have said supercharging has very little impact on overall battery degradation, that is NOT True (at least in my case)
Tesla will not accept this as a battery problem (understood, but they will not even tell how to measure degradation on the battery) I am down 10% and I cannot do anything about it. (27K miles)
- Long drives with multiple supercharger visits, results in degradation.
- It's not just % or miles, the actual kwH reported by the car that is available changes as part of the degradation scale.
- There are several threads, which have said supercharging has very little impact on overall battery degradation, that is NOT True (at least in my case)
Tesla will not accept this as a battery problem (understood, but they will not even tell how to measure degradation on the battery) I am down 10% and I cannot do anything about it. (27K miles)
Sorry, I should have been more clear. I was charging to 333 which I determined to be 90% based of 370-10%, never changed the view to percentage, always had it on miles. Then the other day I was curious what percentage it would display after charging to 333 and I was baffled to see it higher than 90%
Also the slider bar on the charging adjustment, I assumed the last block was 20% and always tried to slide the bar to the middle of that last chunk thinking it was 90%
I guess the "trip" portion is only 10% and not 20% like I assumed.
Short answer? Yes. Frequent use of the superchargers (no idea what constitutes "frequent") will degrade the battery at a higher rate than charging at home.
I first full charged our new Raven LR at home on Aug. 29, 16 days after buying the car and it maxed at 363 rated miles. It has since been full charged 3x, all showing 359-360.
While the rated range is not 370, I don't particularly care as long as it does not degrade unreasonably.
In the real world, the promised tech improvements of the Raven are delivered.
1) In 4K miles of driving the Raven, I'm getting 293Wh/mi. My prior 90D got 342 Wh/mi over 45K miles.
2) I tested at the local supercharger and observed a 140+kW charge rate up to about 30% SoC. Max charge rate in rated miles is 8 miles/minute vs. 5 miles/minute in the prior car. Half an hour supercharging added 182 rated miles vs. 135 in the prior car.
Whether the rated miles are 360 or 370, the amount of time spent charging on road trips is going to be cut in half vs. the 90D by the combination of longer range and faster charging. .
While the rated range is not 370, I don't particularly care as long as it does not degrade unreasonably.
In the real world, the promised tech improvements of the Raven are delivered.
1) In 4K miles of driving the Raven, I'm getting 293Wh/mi. My prior 90D got 342 Wh/mi over 45K miles.
2) I tested at the local supercharger and observed a 140+kW charge rate up to about 30% SoC. Max charge rate in rated miles is 8 miles/minute vs. 5 miles/minute in the prior car. Half an hour supercharging added 182 rated miles vs. 135 in the prior car.
Whether the rated miles are 360 or 370, the amount of time spent charging on road trips is going to be cut in half vs. the 90D by the combination of longer range and faster charging. .
AMPd
Well-Known Member
Can you provide the source for that statement. Because Tesla themselves have said in the past that supercharging depredation is negligible due to the sophisticated BMS.
Tesla explains why it limits Supercharging speed after high numbers of DC charges - Electrek
Specifically:
While the BMS may limit the amount of degradation to some extent by essentially forcing a slower charge, it cannot prevent it entirely due to science
.
lmmuzquiz
Member
I had a 2017 MS 100D until some knucklehead with a suspended license and no insurance plowed into me/T-boned me on the driver's side door as I was driving. That car was totalled and now I have a 2019 MS LR. I'm having the same issue with never reaching 370.
With my 2017, I regularly achieved 335 on a full charge (I travel from AL to GA and back, often), sometimes 339 miles! After about a year, I started seeing "normal" degradation.
With my 2019 MS LR (Aug build), I've NEVER achieved 370 on a full charge. Never. It's only charged to 360, and lately it's only charging to 357. I've only used a supercharger twice, the car only has 2,500 miles on it and it's never charged to 370. I normally charge to 80-90% except when I'm making my AL-GA-AL road trip, which is twice a month and I start driving within 30 minutes of reaching 100%.
When I charge to 80-90% for daily driving, the math always works out to 357-360 miles at 100%. I'm very happy with the 2019 model, just as I was with my 2017 model. BUT, I expected to see the advertised 370 mile range at 100% for the 2019 model, just as I regularly saw a 335 mile range on the 2017 model.
In the grand scheme of things, no biggie. But, like previously stated, it's just annoying. I've emailed Tesla SC and done what they advised (drive to 20-25%, then charge to 100% to recalibrate; reboot/power down car, let sit for a few minutes and power up; etc), all to no avail.
I'm a Tesla fan, especially after surviving the horrific T-bone with only scrapes and air bag burns and hurt feelings. I'm just frustrated because I had a great 100% charge experience with my 2017 model that I'm not seeing in my 2019 model...
Not looking for feedback or replies, just venting.
With my 2017, I regularly achieved 335 on a full charge (I travel from AL to GA and back, often), sometimes 339 miles! After about a year, I started seeing "normal" degradation.
With my 2019 MS LR (Aug build), I've NEVER achieved 370 on a full charge. Never. It's only charged to 360, and lately it's only charging to 357. I've only used a supercharger twice, the car only has 2,500 miles on it and it's never charged to 370. I normally charge to 80-90% except when I'm making my AL-GA-AL road trip, which is twice a month and I start driving within 30 minutes of reaching 100%.
When I charge to 80-90% for daily driving, the math always works out to 357-360 miles at 100%. I'm very happy with the 2019 model, just as I was with my 2017 model. BUT, I expected to see the advertised 370 mile range at 100% for the 2019 model, just as I regularly saw a 335 mile range on the 2017 model.
In the grand scheme of things, no biggie. But, like previously stated, it's just annoying. I've emailed Tesla SC and done what they advised (drive to 20-25%, then charge to 100% to recalibrate; reboot/power down car, let sit for a few minutes and power up; etc), all to no avail.
I'm a Tesla fan, especially after surviving the horrific T-bone with only scrapes and air bag burns and hurt feelings. I'm just frustrated because I had a great 100% charge experience with my 2017 model that I'm not seeing in my 2019 model...
Not looking for feedback or replies, just venting.
Now I just drive with battery percentage on and not worry about miles. It just makes it a lot easier to plan out drives when you know how many miles
Tesla explains why it limits Supercharging speed after high numbers of DC charges - Electrek
Specifically:
While the BMS may limit the amount of degradation to some extent by essentially forcing a slower charge, it cannot prevent it entirely due to science
what a crock of *sugar*, offer free supercharging, then limit and reduce capacity?????????
I bought this simply because I figured I would NEVER plug in at home since a SC is less than 5 miles away in an area I'm in weekly. So now I'm permanently locked down to slower speeds and less range. Wonder how I can get this reversed.
Now that being said, I've probably only SC'd my car in the 2 months I've owned it 20 times?
I seriously doubt you have throttled SC speeds yet. I think you really need to abuse the SC network to get throttled. When you plug in at a SC with a low state of charge (e.g. < 40% charge), What is the max kW you receive? It should be in the 140kW / >400 miles per hour range assuming it's a good stall with no one else sharing.
Also, the speed in which you charge really shouldn't impact the overall amount of range you get.
Would like to know what about to knucklehead? did he have to pay out your car since he had no insurance?
AMPd
Well-Known Member
Usually in those cases your insurance pays out and they try to recoup the money somehow.
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