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100% Charging - Negatives

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I know it's $500 for the unit. I've heard $2k for install? Seems insane. I paid an electrician $150 to install the one I had for my BMW i3.

Let's cut to the chase here. I only put on about 6,000 miles per year on my car. I am away for work much of the time. And I work from him when in Vegas. I don't think I'm going to be able to move, for family reasons, into a house from my apartment complex for at least a few years. Thus, I have no ability to charge whatsoever except at Super Chargers. Was this a massive mistake to buy the M3? Should I take the financial hit and sell it? It has under 300 miles. And I love it to death. But if I'm going to ruin the battery, not so sure I like that idea. Please advise. Thanks everyone!

I'm so confused. You have a charger for a BMW i3 already? (I guess you do use the past tense "had"...so I guess you don't have it anymore?) Can't you just use that one? As someone asked, what is the wattage? But if it's 3kW or more (240V @ 12A) it may be just fine for you. Check the tables for the charge time if you want, or just don't worry about it - 3kW is good enough for most (but obviously not all) use scenarios. If it's a problem look for a different solution. Or do you not have access to this charger anymore?
 
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I think the bigger thing may be overall charging CYCLES not necessarily if it's all SC charging. There were some great articles in 2017 and 2018 about some companies the operate FLEETS of Teslas and have done 300/400/500K miles on them in the past 5-7 years. I think their worst degradation was 88% after 400K miles. There are some charts, graphs that showed the CYCLE count was the bigger impact and it didn't really start to dip below 95% till after about 500 cycles. With 6000 miles a year, you're not going to hit that for nearly a decade.

I would try and be somewhat strategic though. Don't ALWAYS charge to 100%, unless you're going to drive at least 30-40+ miles right off. Maybe charge to 80-90% at the SC and don't drain it down too much. Maybe every 5th time, charge it to FULL, something like that. It could take a bit more management, but I know people who ONLY have SC charging access (other than the odd chargepoint location) and they haven't really seen any degradation YET in 7000+ miles in the first year.
 
OK, so it's your opinion I get a wall connector, period? I am planning on moving soon anyway. That seems to be the best option, correct? How many hours does it take to charge from say 10% to 80%? And what does it cost to install? I know it's $500 for the unit. I've heard $2k for install? Seems insane. I paid an electrician $150 to install the one I had for my BMW i3.
On a 50 amp circuit I am getting 30mph. I paid an electrician 600 to install the wiring that I was too lazy to do myself.
 
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In the context where you absolutely have no way to charge from home (not even a 110v/15a circuit), I'd look to mix up the supercharger visits by using PlugShare to find alternatives when convenient.

In case you do have a 110v plug outside but its out of reach for the mobile charger, consider investing in a thick-gauge extension cord (like 10 gauge, one used for heavy power tools) to get it out to your car. I use a 15' cable for this purpose, and I charge every night, no problems.
 
Seems like you don't have a good understanding of the battery chemistry here ...

1. When new, you can charge to 100% and it will be (close to ) 310 miles (of course that range depends on temp, speed, rain , etc.)

2. Best practice is to charge somewhere between 20% to 90% on a regular basis (i.e. when you get to 20% of rated range - ~62 miles, it would be good to recharge- and then recharge to 90% (or 279 miles). The last 10% will take you a long time at the supercharger anyway - so why bother. (unless you are about to go on a 300 mile + drive tomorrow).

3. Yes, you could cycle 100% to 0 all the time - and yes, the battery capacity after 1 year might be somewhere between 80-90% of new, meaning when you charge to 100% you will now only have 248-279 miles of range). And after 2,3,4 years it will be progressively less.

4. How much less depends on the individual battery, charge temp, storage temp, and many other factors - that is why no one can give you an exact answer.

5. I'm in similar situation to you with no charge capability at home - so I just fill up when I have to go past the supercharger anyway (for grocery run for example). Works out about once per week in my case.
 
Seems like you don't have a good understanding of the battery chemistry here ...

3. Yes, you could cycle 100% to 0 all the time - and yes, the battery capacity after 1 year might be somewhere between 80-90% of new, meaning when you charge to 100% you will now only have 248-279 miles of range). And after 2,3,4 years it will be progressively less.

you really think one could see THAT much degradation in ONE year? I mean Tesla guarantees more than 70% after EIGHT years. Many people have gotten free batteries when it's degraded down to 80/85% in shorter time frames?

There was a large Model S study that showed even with over 150K miles on cars, they weren't even getting down to 90% (a 10% degradation). That must have been many years and/or cycles.

Do you think the 100 to 0 to 100 over and over again would create that much more battery degradation? I'm not recommending it, but I thought the new 2170 cells were supposed to be even better in this regard?
 
OK, so it's your opinion I get a wall connector, period? I know it's $500 for the unit.
In my opinion and experience so far, to charge your car overnight (10-12 hours) the mobile connector that comes with the car is all you need. What you really need is a 220V outlet to get decent mph charging. in km/h the charger provided does 45 km per hour of charge (28.125 miles) and the fancy wall connector does 62 (38.75 miles). Even over 8 - 10 hours of overnight charging you’re fine with the mobile connector to get to 80 or 90%.
 
The information I got from Tesla salespeople (Montreal) about 2 months ago was to keep the battery between 20 - 80% in order to maximize battery life, and to charge to 100% when you need that extra range. And on my car (long range model 3) there is a warning when charging to 100% that doing this all the time will shorten battery life. Also people at Tesla said that if you stayed within those 20 - 80% values, you could supercharge all you want and it would not damage the batteries. I don't know how true this is from experience as I've had my car for only a month, but I intend to go with the advice of the people who work for the company that builds the cars... (fyi my daily / usual charging is done at home with the mobile connector that comes with the car on a 220V outlet.)
Also, on the topic of charging to 100%, my recent road trip (around 1000 miles) had me wondering if it's really necessary when your 80% range is 250 miles. Stopping about every 3 hours (3 hours @ 70 mph = 210 miles) is good for the body and charging to 60% is crazy fast, and to 80% is 30-40 minutes total, which is plenty to get to your next stop. Getting from 80 to 100% will take about 20 - 30 more minutes if my memory is right (charging to 100% was stated to be 50 - 60 minutes I believe). Those 20 - 30 minutes will get you to 60% at your next stop 3 hours away... in my opinion that time is better spent that way. Thanks for reading :)
 
Also, on the topic of charging to 100%, my recent road trip (around 1000 miles) had me wondering if it's really necessary when your 80% range is 250 miles.
Assuming the 3 works the same way as the S, charging to 93% or more activates the battery balancing circuits, so an occasional charge to that range can help. The problem is not charging to 100%, it's leaving it there. On a trip the fastest method is to charge to 100% (or close) for the first charge of the day* (assumes you are at home or destination charging), then charge only enough to get to the next charging place (plus a bit extra for reserve). This allows most of your charging to be either at the fast end of the charging scale or when it doesn't matter because you haven't started driving yet.

* Set the charge start time so that the charging is complete, or nearly so, at the time you leave.
 
OP - Just to clarify, you have zero access to electricity at home?
In your shoes, I would try to find something you do regularly that has a charger. I am thinking gym. Or a friend's house.
Try to do most of your charging there.
BTW - charging to 100% at a SC and then driving home is a lot better than charging to 100% and staying there. The real issue is amount of time spent at 100% rather than actually getting to 100%. Given your short drive home from supercharger, I would set it at 95% so that you are pretty quickly down to the recommended 93%.
An i3 charger is perfectly fine to use for a Model 3. The install charge should be no different. With your mileage, 120V would be fine (with occ supercharging)
 
Re: charging to 100% for a trip
My pre-trip routine is to charge on Fridays before we go Saturday morning on a 160-350mi trip.
Is there any harm in charging to 100% 12-24hr before use?
Will my vampire drain be higher sitting @ 100% for that time versus sitting @ 95% or 90% ?
 
Re: charging to 100% for a trip
My pre-trip routine is to charge on Fridays before we go Saturday morning on a 160-350mi trip.
Is there any harm in charging to 100% 12-24hr before use?
Will my vampire drain be higher sitting @ 100% for that time versus sitting @ 95% or 90% ?
I don't believe anyone has show exactly how much damage is done to the battery vs. time spent at 100%, and it is also temperature dependent. Generally, you can use the start charge time so the charge completes within a few minutes of leaving. (What I do is estimate about how long the charge will take, and sometimes it doesn't quite complete a 100% charge before I start driving. Whether I start driving at 97% or 100% isn't a bit deal for me.) The vampier drain doesn't appear to increase--at least I don't recall any posts about that. The kW/mi does go down until regen is fully available.
 
In my opinion and experience so far, to charge your car overnight (10-12 hours) the mobile connector that comes with the car is all you need. What you really need is a 220V outlet to get decent mph charging. in km/h the charger provided does 45 km per hour of charge (28.125 miles) and the fancy wall connector does 62 (38.75 miles). Even over 8 - 10 hours of overnight charging you’re fine with the mobile connector to get to 80 or 90%.

Compare to 110V , at 220V the mobile charger is about 5% more efficient. Tesla web site probably has those specs.
 
Re: charging to 100% for a trip
My pre-trip routine is to charge on Fridays before we go Saturday morning on a 160-350mi trip.
Is there any harm in charging to 100% 12-24hr before use?
Will my vampire drain be higher sitting @ 100% for that time versus sitting @ 95% or 90% ?
What many did before departure time option was available: charge to 90 or 95% overnight as usual. Restart charging as soon as you get up to get that last bit to 100 while you go through your morning routines.
 
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What many did before departure time option was available: charge to 90 or 95% overnight as usual. Restart charging as soon as you get up to get that last bit to 100 while you go through your morning routines.
I am unfortunately in an urban situation without a home charger.
So my scenario is how to best get as much charge into the car at a local L2/L3 charger the day before a big trip.
 
Everyone is arguing about battery degradation but it is very annoying to drive without Regen.

the OP should do what he/she wants. Once you buy it, it’s yours to do with as you please. The battery warranty does not have any disclaimers for 100% charging.

for the record, I will only occasionally change to 100%. But I would like someone to try charging it to 100% daily and report back in a year. Consider it a benefit to the Tesla community.