100% drive unit failure rate??

[mknox]

I have had one DU replacement (for the hum) and now have been waiting over a year for my current DU to be replaced. It has the "milling" sound and Tesla did note on my Service Order that it would be replaced. It is crazy loud now. People inside and outside the car comment on it. When it is in for other issues I am told either they are "waiting for parts" or "waiting for some sort of repair instructions from Tesla".

It's not in my nature to be a pest, and Tesla has generally been quite good when I have service issues, but maybe I need to give them another call on this.

 

[lolachampcar]

Thank you....
You learn something new every day.

 

[Archer]

Every ICE car I've owned eventually need a new transmission, a new catalytic convertor, a new radiator, etc.. Every ICE car started making noise after awhile. But we are conditioned to think that is the norm so I didn't bring in my car after 50K miles and said this engine doesn't sound as quiet as it did in the beginning so can you give me a new one.

Noise from a Tesla DU will be more pronounced because it is simply a quieter car but that doesn't mean the problem is a catastrophic one. The fact that Tesla will proactively swap out the DU is not a negative but a positive because as a company they are focused on making the best car possible. And if that means swapping out units in order to study and improve on the technology, then that should be encourage, IMO.

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It's not in my nature to be a pest, and Tesla has generally been quite good when I have service issues, but maybe I need to give them another call on this.

Definitely. It doesn't do them any good for you to be driving with a loud DU that you have to apologize / explain to others.

 

[mibaro2]

Every ICE car I've owned eventually need a new transmission, a new catalytic convertor, a new radiator, etc.. Every ICE car started making noise after awhile. But we are conditioned to think that is the norm so I didn't bring in my car after 50K miles and said this engine doesn't sound as quiet as it did in the beginning so can you give me a new one.

Noise from a Tesla DU will be more pronounced because it is simply a quieter car but that doesn't mean the problem is a catastrophic one. The fact that Tesla will proactively swap out the DU is not a negative but a positive because as a company they are focused on making the best car possible. And if that means swapping out units in order to study and improve on the technology, then that should be encourage, IMO.

+10
True. When an ICE car gets noisier, we don't consider it to have a defective engine. When a starter has to be replaced on an ICE motor, we don't say that the whole engine is defective.

 

[drsaab]

Nov 14 build. 33k. Scheduled for drive unit replacement for very annoying milling noise. Mostly highway miles.

 

[Krugerrand]

Then how would you define proactive replacement?

You're here on other business, we've had some issues in the past, just so happens we've got a spare in stock, don't want you to have any problems just in case, here you go, have a nice day.

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Excuses only work for so long. You forgot to take into account the dozens of revisions that are nothing but patches, and do not address the real issues. Same with the UMC(I'm on #10 in 2.5 years). Whoever makes these engineering decisions at Tesla is asleep at the wheel, and if it continues the company will fail. Not that complicated to understand, and even Tesla cannot fake reality for very long.

You're making a lot of assumptions in just those two sentences. You'll have to have the assumption discussion with someone else.

 

[AndreyATC]

I just had my car serviced today
It was in for Drive unit replacement (due to 20-40KW acceleration whining sound)
25K on ODO
Super quiet now, even under hard acceleration

 

[mgdurand]

Very interesting. How well do we know this? Does this mechanism come from Tesla, or is it an armchair hypothesis? (How confident can I be if I want to quote it, and what's the source.)

This, I was going to add information along these lines to this thread if nobody else had..


Thank you flathillll

I was told similar. The milling sound has to do with micro-pitting of metal bearings as caused by high frequency high power transmission through them. Induced eddy currents of the massively powerful motor generating a lot of magnetic flux creates current in parts that don't need to have current in them. Like bearings. That chatter under load with power applied.

Why does the sound happen on applied power and not regen? Reversed role of the motor, reversed magnetic directions, reversed current flow... out a different path. The stationary casing of the motor, which is ground strapped...

Would strapping a rotor after the bearing has been compromised stop the milling sound once it had started?

Adding a brush wouldn't be so bad, even as a wear item, I bet you could get a very long lasting design and accessible from the exterior of the casing.

 

[Owner]

I've had my problems: tire alignment and door handles. But in 50K miles same drive unit!

Only a wee wee bit more noise than when I first got it, but so tiny you have to concentrate to hear it.

 

[Frankydude]

The more I read about this issue, the more concerned it makes me. It is amazing to me that they wouldn't have a better solution than what is currently being done. All gears and related transmission equipment should be designed for a somewhat determinate life expectancy (and I hope it's orders of magnitude higher than 20,000 miles). I've read somewhere that it was hypothesized that the failures may be a result of the ball bearings used not having the ability to accommodate transmitted axial loads. If this can't be accommodated with a more appropriate bearing, the fix should be to use a hearingbone gear. I can imagine with the repair costs continuing to ramp, that Tesla is looking real hard at this to determine when a major design change needs to be implemented.

The suggestion seems interesting.
Just for info,those gears are named Herringbone gears
Herringbone gear - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Francois
2013 P85 30000miles, original DU.

 

[kort677]

It's not in my nature to be a pest, and Tesla has generally been quite good when I have service issues, but maybe I need to give them another call on this.

the squeaky wheel gets the grease, your being passive is not getting the car functioning the way it is supposed to.

 

[SeminoleFSU]

Again, I think AWD is there engineering solution. It either reduces strain on a single DU to the point it won't fail or it pushes the problem back until way later when you don't own the car anymore.

I've thought the same thing..

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This is what my DU replacement paperwork stated from September:

Part QuantityDRIVE UNIT - BASE - ALL REGIONS (1002633-00-N)1
Mobil Dexron VI ATF (1031096-00-A)
2ETHYLENE GLYCOL COOLANT - 50/50 MIX - 1 gallon (1029320-00-A)
1SIDE MOTOR MOUNT ASSEMBLY (1028034-00-B)

So I'm guessing I got a revision N unit?

My service tech told me it isn't just the reman units that they're swapping, it's also the motor mounts which can contribute to some of the symptoms customers feel.. I'm not sure if he meant the milling, clunk, or transformer noise... I would assume clunk.

 

[ecarfan]

AFAIC, noise == failure... it is a bearing that gets worn...

Please explain how you know that the "milling noise" is caused by a bearing problem.
You state that as if it was a fact.
Are you a Tesla service person or Tesla engineer? No? That's what I thought...

Every ICE car I've owned eventually need a new transmission, a new catalytic convertor, a new radiator, etc.. Every ICE car started making noise after awhile. But we are conditioned to think that is the norm so I didn't bring in my car after 50K miles and said this engine doesn't sound as quiet as it did in the beginning so can you give me a new one.

Noise from a Tesla DU will be more pronounced because it is simply a quieter car but that doesn't mean the problem is a catastrophic one. The fact that Tesla will proactively swap out the DU is not a negative but a positive because as a company they are focused on making the best car possible. And if that means swapping out units in order to study and improve on the technology, then that should be encourage, IMO.

Thank you for that very sensible analysis.
I do not think that the sound in question is "normal" as one person posted in this thread. It's isn't normal because it is not present when the cars are new and only a minority of cars appear to develop it at a later time.
But I do not consider it a "failure". The car still drives normally and is completely usable as a car, and the occupants are in no danger, nor is there any evidence that cars with that sound appear to be at a greater risk of ceasing to operate.
I particularly object to the use of the word "failure" because when the average person hears "Tesla motor failures" I can guarantee you that they think "The cars are broken, they can't move, and they sit on the side of the road waiting for a tow truck". Which is obviously untrue.
An accurate description of the issue is "Some Teslas develop a noise noticeable while driving at low speeds and Tesla replaces the drive unit".
Of course that is not as dramatic and attention getting as "Teslas motors are failing!"

 

[yobigd20]

Please explain how you know that the "milling noise" is caused by a bearing problem.
You state that as if it was a fact.
Are you a Tesla service person or Tesla engineer? No? That's what I thought...

Because that is exactly how Tesla described it to me and they even wrote it like that directly in the service repair report that the milling noise is caused by a bearing problem.

 

[ohmman]

Because that is exactly how Tesla described it to me and they even wrote it like that directly in the service repair report that the milling noise is caused by a bearing problem.

Likewise to me. They didn't volunteer it, but when I pressed to ask what was happening, the explanation was that there was a bearing issue.

 

[BozieBeMe2]

Has anyone noticed in the Tesla film clips, where they are assembling the motors & gear boxes. There wasn't any grease in the bearings and it didn't show if the gear box section was a 'wet' lubed system or used Any type of lube at all. Gears and bearings need some form of lube, don't you think?

 

[mknox]

Every ICE car I've owned eventually need a new transmission, a new catalytic convertor, a new radiator, etc..

Not sure what kinds of cars you've owned, but I've never once had to replace (or even repair) a transmission or cat converter and I've owned cars for 8+ years. My mother drives an '86 Chrysler Lebaron and it's had zero transmission issues. I did have to replace the rad about 15 years ago.

 

[EarlyAdopter]

Every ICE car I've owned eventually need a new transmission, a new catalytic convertor, a new radiator, etc.. Every ICE car started making noise after awhile. But we are conditioned to think that is the norm so I didn't bring in my car after 50K miles and said this engine doesn't sound as quiet as it did in the beginning so can you give me a new one.

Noise from a Tesla DU will be more pronounced because it is simply a quieter car but that doesn't mean the problem is a catastrophic one. The fact that Tesla will proactively swap out the DU is not a negative but a positive because as a company they are focused on making the best car possible. And if that means swapping out units in order to study and improve on the technology, then that should be encourage, IMO.

This, x100.

If I took my past gas cars in for service every time their engines developed an annoying sound they'd all have spent a great deal of time in the shop.

 

[cwerdna]

I haven't had a chance to read this whole thread yet, but I'm thinking the title should have the word changed from failure to replacement.

And, each successive replacement on a given car should add another 100% for that car.

Every ICE car I've owned eventually need a new transmission, a new catalytic convertor, a new radiator, etc..

Not sure what kinds of cars you've owned, but I've never once had to replace (or even repair) a transmission or cat converter and I've owned cars for 8+ years. My mother drives an '86 Chrysler Lebaron and it's had zero transmission issues. I did have to replace the rad about 15 years ago.

Ditto on mknox's comments. For ever car I've ever personally owned, I also have never had to replace the transmission, cat nor radiator. However, admittedly none of mine hit 100K miles before I got rid of them.

The oldest car I had was a 91 Camry bought new in 91 that was a hand me down that I sold in early 02. The next oldest are my 06 Prius, bought in January 06, so a few months shy of 10 years now. The next oldest after that was an 04 Nissan 350Z, bought ~Labor Day of 03, sold in mid-2011.

Amongst the cars my parents owned, never have replaced any of those either. However, my dad's 02 Toyota Rav4 bought in early 02 did need a new either last year or this year, causing him to dump it instead of replacing it.

I don't recall the eventual ages of all the cars my parents had, but my mom's 96 Camry V6 bought new in 96, totaled in early 08 definitely never needed any of those and AFAIK only ever needed 1 or 2 repairs in its entire life.

 

[flathillll]

The cars with high mileage that dont make the milling sound have drivers with VHF hearing loss and/or always drive with the windows up