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100D vs. P100D and towing

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We tow a 4,500 travel trailer and at 65mph expect 110 miles of range on flat highway, no wind. Our trailer does not have good aero. Also, add a weight distribution hitch.
I’m amazed you can get 110 miles of range with that trailer in those conditions at that speed. What is your Wh/mi average under those conditions?

I tow at 55 and on a flat road with no wind I use 500 to 550Wh/mi. My trailer is 96” at roof peak and 86” wide (2,300 lbs loaded but weight has little effect on energy usage on a level road). Your trailer clearly has a much larger frontal area than mine.

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I’m amazed you can get 110 miles of range with that trailer in those conditions at that speed. What is your Wh/mi average under those conditions?

I tow at 55 and on a flat road with no wind I use 500 to 550Wh/mi. My trailer is 96” at roof peak and 86” wide (2,300 lbs loaded but weight has little effect on energy usage on a level road). Your trailer clearly has a much larger frontal area than mine.

I had a good amount of towing this weekend, here's some data points.

Vehicle: Model X 75D, 237 rated range - 4% degradation w/ 22" OEM wheels and Pirelli's
Trailer: 6.5'w x 10'l x 8'h, V-Nose Cargo Trailer, Single Axle, Empty Weight: 1200lbs

Leg 1: Normal settings and driving, 66 miles, 60 mph average, 653 wh/mi, Air Temp: 82F, Peak Climb 566ft, Highway speeds of 70-80mph
Starting Range & Elevation: 90% @ 110ft
Remaining Range & Elevation: 22% @ 930ft

Leg 2: Range mode and normal driving, 40 miles, 58mph average, 638 wh/mi, Air Temp: 90F, Peak Climb 350ft, Highway speeds of 70-85mph
Starting Range & Elevation: 70% @ 930ft
Remaining Range & Elevation: 41% @ 1060ft

Leg 3: Range mode off, Chill Mode Enabled, 117 miles, 52mph average, 509 wh/mi, trailer loaded - ~2750lbs total, Air Temp: 74F, Peak Climb: 315ft, Highway speeds of 55-65mph
Starting Range & Elevation: 89% @ 865ft
Remaining Range & Elevation: 2% @ 865ft

Leg 4: Range mode off, Chill Mode Enabled, 98 miles, 54mph average, 585 wh/mi, trailer loaded - ~2750lbs total, Air Temp: 65F, Peak Climb: 610ft, Highway speeds of 60-70mph
Starting Range & Elevation: 85% @ 865ft
Remaining Range & Elevation: 12% @ 930ft

At that rate, your 100 kWh battery would only take your car about 350 feet from 100% SOC to 0% :rolleyes: Please do not make false claims. A non-performance Model X can easily pull a 5,000 pound trailer uphill at highway (passing) speeds. It's not a matter of performance or even gearing. The weight limit endorsed by Tesla is more for the frame rigidity and for stability control reasons.

My data fully supports this. Elevation mattered and I saw peaks of ~1200wh/mi; but over distance this averaged out. I was towing with a slightly less powerful MX75D; and with chill mode enabled I was limiting myself to even less power. The MX gets plenty of torque for getting going as well as passing. In Leg 1 & 2, I saw peak speeds of ~85mph, Leg 3 and 4 saw peak speeds of ~75mph.

With a proper extension cord (or say a hypothetical network of high speed chargers) I don't see any real limitation of any Model X being able to handle the majority of people's towing needs.
 
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No it doesn't :rolleyes:

Take a look at the original post from @j-rho "... trailer might require 1500 kWh/mi...". Notice the "k" in kWh/mi. That over 1000 times more than the "~1200wh/mi" you are using on steep climbs. I think @spectrum post is tongue in cheek.

#pedantic #unitsmatter

My statement support spectrum, not j-rho.

Specifically this statement: A non-performance Model X can easily pull a 5,000 pound trailer uphill at highway (passing) speeds. It's not a matter of performance or even gearing.

With this support: I was towing with a slightly less powerful MX75D; and with chill mode enabled I was limiting myself to even less power. The MX gets plenty of torque for getting going as well as passing.

Perhaps I had already tuned j-rho out by the time I replied. But going back through the thread and to the OP; the question was whether or not the larger motors have a better effect on efficiency. This evolved into a theoretical discussion about motor size, operating efficiency ranges, and the factors of economy while towing. While my data is not a direct 100 to P100D comparison; with a 75D a couple of thigs were shown.

1. In chill mode, which further reduces power output; the power was still sufficient to tow at high way speeds and minor elevation changes.
2. The energy usage was actually less with the power reduced in chill mode. Consider it virtual motor limitation if you will; and would not support a larger motor/more power = better efficiency theory on a fixed gear EV.
 
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Does chill mode just ramp up power more slowly, essentially damping accelerator input, or does it hard-limit it to some % of normal available power? I'd be wary of having limited the rig's maneuverability in traffic conditions with reduced accelerative capability.

Yep, I goofed on the units, 1500wh/mi (or 1.5kwh, not 1500!) I believe I've seen reported by some towing in some of the big mountains out west.

If the P is no more efficient, even more glad I got a regular 100 then! :D
 
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Does chill mode just ramp up power more slowly, essentially damping accelerator input, or does it hard-limit it to some % of normal available power? I'd be wary of having limited the rig's maneuverability in traffic conditions with reduced accelerative capability.

Yep, I goofed on the units, 1500wh/mi (or 1.5kwh, not 1500!) I believe I've seen reported by some towing in some of the big mountains out west.

If the P is no more efficient, even more glad I got a regular 100 then! :D

Both, and I was worried about the same as well. Under normal towing, I don’t typically use chill mode, foot control is usually enough. However; going 117 miles between superchargers in a 75D was a tad...close. I couldn’t spare going the two hours with a oops moment up a hill and then being stranded, so I enabled it.

I could’ve probably charged another hour to 100%, but I was also trying to beat some weather that might’ve erased the extra charging too.
 
Tongue weight can change a lot when the vehicle and trailer are up to speed as well. A trailer with a boxy frontend may actually lift on the hitch at highway speeds. A more aerodynamic trailer may place additional down pressure on the tongue at speeds.

I sold an enclosed box trailer due to the fact that every time I towed it empty the hitch was being lifted. This caused all sorts of rattling and banging.
 
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Maiden towing voyage was a success. A mix of 55-60mph highway and a few miles of 45-50mph surface streets, averaged just under 600wh/mi over about 30 miles. This should mean a 120 mile towing range without stressing out too bad, a little better than I was expecting.
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At one point there was some creaky cracky frame-y sounds, sure it was nothing, heh.

There's some nonsense it the 7-pin plug wiring so it wouldn't pair with the Prodigy RF brake controller...no trailer brakes or lights made it a little dodgy. Will have that sorted before next tow, guess we have to split the running light pin to power the +12v trailers expect?

Plenty of oomph to get going and stability was fine at the speeds I was going.

Getting the hitch going was a bit of work. First the normal Draw-Tite hitch install others have chronicled.

To get the hitch ball to the right height, needed to flip things around from how I'd used it on my truck. Unfortunately at that height it would have nearly been resting against the rear bumper cover, and maybe pushing into it under certain load patterns, so I had to cut it down a few inches (two holes' worth).
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For the 7-pin adapter, made a little bracket to point the plug back in the direction they normally go, since the Draw-Tite has no provision for it. After it all came together realized I probably should have painted it black, will do so when it comes back apart to modify the wiring.

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Under 500 all loaded!
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There's some nonsense it the 7-pin plug wiring so it wouldn't pair with the Prodigy RF brake controller...no trailer brakes or lights made it a little dodgy. Will have that sorted before next tow, guess we have to split the running light pin to power the +12v trailers expect?

Two possibilities.

1. You need an adapter for it to work with LED lights on the trailer (StackPath)
2. Some people have reported that the 12V constant power on the 7-pin connector is disabled/not activated on recent builds.
 
Trailer lights are regular old-school bulbs, gotta be the 12V thing. Car is a June 2018 build. A bummer they nerfed the supplied 12V, wonder if it was to prevent people from using it as a power take-off for their trailers when not towing.
 
Trailer lights are regular old-school bulbs, gotta be the 12V thing. Car is a June 2018 build. A bummer they nerfed the supplied 12V, wonder if it was to prevent people from using it as a power take-off for their trailers when not towing.

Here's the thread. Looks as if the way to get around it might be pairing the controller using another vehicle.

Tekonsha Prodigy RF Brake Controller
 
Maiden towing voyage was a success. A mix of 55-60mph highway and a few miles of 45-50mph surface streets, averaged just under 600wh/mi over about 30 miles. This should mean a 120 mile towing range without stressing out too bad, a little better than I was expecting.
Thanks for your report. Was that 30 miles on flat dry roads with no headwind?
 
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I noticed that in recent European and Finnish language version of Model X Owners Manual the allowed trailer weight is the same 5000 pounds / 2250 kg for all wheel sizes, 22" and 20" and now including 19" winter tyres. But in North America version dated August 10 it is still 3500 pounds / 1580 kg for 22" wheel.
https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/model_x_owners_manual_north_america_en.pdf
https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/model_x_owners_manual_europe_fi_fi.pdf

I wonder if they come with the same tires. That seems to be the limitation with the 22s
 
First decent length tow today, bit over 200 miles altogether, San Diego to LA and back.

Had been scoping out So Cal superchargers for what would be compatible with the trailer. Chose to hit Fountain Valley on the way up. There's a big Petsmart and it wasn't too busy in the morning - plenty of room to unhitch with the trailer still visible from inside the car when charging.
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Those 83 miles took the car from 97% down to 40%. About 1.45 miles per percent of charge.

From there up to Alhambra to drop off the car. Stopped at the San Clemente SC on the way home. Here there's a garage adjacent to the chargers with a very high ceiling, and every time I've been through here there's been tons of open spaces for trailers.

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This 100 mile stretch started at 95% and went down to 29% (66%), though the dash reported a lot less. Still about 1.5 miles per percent.
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Stability was fine, braking fine now that the controller is sorted (just gotta keep the lights on - long story). Oomph was great, pretty amazing really. Smooth and quiet.

Based on this, pretty sure I can make it 120 miles in one go, which might be needed for some longer trips. Still probably won't ever tow more than like 400 miles one-way because of all the stopping, but the X proved itself for me now over a reasonable distance.
 
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