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100KW battery upgrade now available $20k

ModelXBoy

No More Door Captain of TMC! Oh Yeah Baby!
Jan 3, 2016
488
442
Orange County, CA
The early buyers of the Model X take the most hit in term of quality, price and availability. Technically the Model X started to ship out in massive quantities in March, this month is also where all the major quality problems are found on the Xs. About 5 month after, the P100D was introduced. We as early adaptors had really helped Tesla not only to fix quality problems, patient problem, and now the pocket problem! I will continue to support Tesla and willing to upgrade to P100D with Ludicrous Mode on my X, but think retroactively I totally regret getting the X so early. But it is what it is, we trust Tesla and we did help Tesla accelerating sustainable energy for this planet and we did help Tesla to achieve its financial goals to build the Model 3, there should be no regret.

In the end, we have to shed off $20G to upgrade a brand new car that were outdated in five month, personally I am not too happy of it but this is a decision made by Elon and I respect that fully. The one part I am pretty sad about is the ability to upgrade P90DL to P100DL but not available for customers with 90D to upgrade. What happens to those buyers? Getting an ultra expensive car that went instantly obsolete? Trade the X in and get a new X in just couple of month of owning it? This could a problem.
 
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ohmman

Plaid-ish Moderator
Feb 13, 2014
10,201
18,736
North Bay, CA
In the end, we have to shed off $20G to upgrade a brand new car that were outdated in five month, personally I am not too happy of it but this is a decision made by Elon and I respect that fully. The one part I am pretty sad about is the ability to upgrade P90DL to P100DL but not available for customers with 90D to upgrade. What happens to those buyers? Getting an ultra expensive car that went instantly obsolete? Trade the X in and get a new X in just couple of month of owning it? This could a problem.
You are making the same mistake made by many before you in using the words "obsolete" and "outdated". My 90D is still one of the very few electric SUVs on the planet. In my eyes, that makes it better than all of the ICE SUVs out there. So while there are newer vehicles with more range or more speed, I think obsolete and outdated are poor descriptors of the situation.

My P85 Model S, delivered in the beginning of 2014 without AP and many of the bells and whistles, is still one of the best cars on the road. On any given day, I rank it above pretty much every non-Tesla I pass on the road. Some would say it's outdated, but I would strongly disagree. I'll tell you what's outdated - that brand new Corvette with temporary tags I passed today.
 

MP3Mike

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2016
16,539
38,851
Oregon
That is interesting then. Can they reclaim any of the use materials to use for net new batteries?

Sure, once they get the battery recycling operation going at the Gigafactory they can recover all of the base minerals/materials to make new batteries. But that seems like a huge waste, and very in-green, when the, barely used, batteries could be put to good use either for stationary storage or to upgrade an existing Model S to a larger capacity/more performance. (For example to replace a ~4-5 year old version A battery that can't even Supercharge at full speed. Or to replace the 60 kWh batteries in the original 40s/60s that come in for CPO to make them software upgradable.)

Hey, maybe that is what they will do with the returned batteries from the upgrades. Any 40/60, or 85 with a Ver. A battery, Model S that get returned to Tesla will get a 90kWh battery put in it as part of the CPO process. That would give a huge boost in sale price for essentially a free battery, a software change, and a few dollars of badge changes.
 
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Reeler

Decade of Pure EV Driving
Oct 14, 2015
1,756
1,306
Denver, CO
They are offering the $10K upgrade so that folks don't walk from their delivery. Doing that is only $2.5K so this saves all those unclosed sales. The batteries will be broken down to go into power walls and industrial applications is my guess.
 

Xminus6

Member
Sep 3, 2015
698
478
Bay Area, CA
Tesla is just as much a tech company as a car company. People who are in tech or even enthusiasts know that you're buying the features of capabilities of what is available at that time with some limited upgradability going forward. Just like in technology, the introduction of new features and capabilities does not retroactively remove functionality from the thing you currently own. I got my car a month or two before it was revealed that AP hardware was installed. Do I regret not getting AP included on my car? Sure but I don't really dwell on it and I certainly have no expectation that Tesla owes me some upgrade path on my car. I'll likely upgrade soon to a Model X with AP2.

I got the features I wanted at the time and what I expected to be included in the price that I agreed to pay. People are going to have to get used to the constant iteration of Tesla's cars. While it can cause you to get caught in an unfortunate position in relation to features introduced without warning, it's also the same philosophy that enables Tesla to significantly improve the car that you currently own through updates and feature improvements.
 

ubringliten

New Member
Aug 24, 2016
1
0
San Francisco
I am another owner that is pretty bummed out. I got my X P90DL 3 weeks ago and drove about 200 miles so far. My new car just became a couple of years old in the quickest time possible. I don't get why Tesla did this. The X just came out in March and there's an already an upgrade? They could have kept it for Model S and wait a couple of years to upgrade for X.
 

K-MTG

Sunshade Captain of TMC
Oct 24, 2015
4,815
3,506
Irvine, CA
What value do you think a $110k (before taxes and incentives) would hold in 3-4 years?

I am fine with the M3 being refreshed monthly since it is so cheap to replace, $20k is like 95% M3 after tax credit. The main reason I purchased my X instead of a lease is that I believed Tesla's hold a strong resell value.
 

MP3Mike

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2016
16,539
38,851
Oregon
I am another owner that is pretty bummed out. I got my X P90DL 3 weeks ago and drove about 200 miles so far. My new car just became a couple of years old in the quickest time possible. I don't get why Tesla did this. The X just came out in March and there's an already an upgrade? They could have kept it for Model S and wait a couple of years to upgrade for X.

Are you kidding? There would be more of an uproar about that. After all the Model X is the most expensive Tesla model so it should get the features first. (Like the ventilated seats, rear cup holders, bioweapon filtering, etc.) If anything the Model X needs the 100 kWh battery more than the Model S. (Though it would be best in the non P versions.)

It will make a huge difference for people towing a trailer. (I wouldn't be surprised if the Model X is available as a 100D before the Model S has the option for a 100D version.)

And you have the option of upgrading your Model X to be the same as the ones that are shipping now. (And I think the P90DLs will hold their value well, as they are less expensive than the P100Ds, have most of the benefitr of the P100D, and are no longer available for purchase.)
 
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AnxietyRanger

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2014
9,408
7,978
EU
I'm sure they are doing that because they don't want to hold up the deliveries of all of the cars that people want to get upgraded to a P100DL until the new batteries are actually available in QTY. (Especially if they are already in the process of being shipped somewhere.)

But if the estimates on the site are accurate someone who orders a brand new P100DL could get it as early as next month.

So use their limited availability of the 100kWh packs, ~200 week, for new orders to push demand/delervies up, and then once demand for that falls they will use the 100kWh for upgrades. Once upgrades are mostly complete they will probably make the 100 kWh packs available for 100Ds. (I figure the timeline will be squishy depending on actual demand.)

I agree that is the reason they are likely doing it this way. When I read Tesla's reasoning, I too expected it to be like vandacca said that they'd just swap the battery prior to delivery and re-use the old pack as new - or for cars (like mine) not yet manufactured, simply swap at the factory. Their wording certainly suggested it: "Tesla customers who have ordered a P90D Ludicrous, but not taken delivery, can upgrade to the 100 kWh pack for $10,000. Existing P90D Ludicrous owners can also upgrade to a 100 kWh pack, but for $20,000, as their used 90 kWh pack will have to be recycled."

Tesla's wording suggested only the existing owners' packs needed to be recycled, but in fact it turns out many (all?) non-delivered upgrades will need recycling as well. This makes the apology at the end more appear more multi-faceted, though, they are probably apologizing to existing owners as well as new buyers whose Ludicrous Tesla dreams just went up in price... It is significantly more expensive to get into a top-of-the-line Tesla today. "While the P100D Ludicrous is obviously an expensive vehicle, we want to emphasize that every sale helps pay for the smaller and much more affordable Tesla Model 3 that is in development. Without customers willing to buy the expensive Model S and X..."

In a sense, there are three, maybe four levels of customers here:
1) the new/unconfirmed orders that can just click in their new selection and will likely get the pack first as the factory will simply source and build them that way
2) the confirmed P90DL customers with manufacturing and/or delivery still coming up, that have the option to upgrade at price similar to new order but will get theirs retrofitted a bit later (arguably good value for money still, because Tesla eats the recycling cost and you get a car to drive without delays)
3) the existing P90DL owners who can upgrade but at a significantly higher cost, this is still a privileged group as they are being catered to, but I can see how it might not seem that way compared to the previous groups
4) non-P90DL owners/buyers, who may have some upgrade paths down the road, but not yet - when 100D is widely available, I would expect 90D's to be replaced by it and existing ones getting a pack upgrade option (unless the 100 kWh pack is too costly to replace a mid-high-end model and they'll just keep the 90D)

The fact that, in the end, there even are customers in the second and third layers is exceptional in the annals of recent automotive history. The traditional retrofits offered by car manufacturers have been seriously limited in scope and mostly minor cosmetic and/or non-factory-install quality stuff. Tesla so far has had a different approach and, personally, with having had a P90DL (not yet manufactured) on order, the upgrade to P100D yesterday was a welcome option.

But I also understand there are shades of grey here and some understandable critique as well. The lack of model years (or even a secondary mid-year referesh point that some manufacturers have) combined with the delays in the manufacturing process, compounded by Tesla's international network for those of us abroad, certainly means increased risks for the buyer of not knowing how your new car will compare to the state-of-the-art when you get it.

It is, in reality, much easier to estimate this with other companies with clear demarkation lines. I mean, there are European Model X buyers who locked in their order in March (with a reservation made in e.g. 2013-2014) and are only getting their cars now. Many of these early adopters certainly went for the P90DL or maybe some didn't, but would have taken the plunge with a P100D... It would have been hard to estimate in March that this would happen.

However, again shades of grey, this is of course mitigated in part by Tesla's exceptional willingness at providing retrofits. So the good news is some of them can upgrade at price difference and all P90DL owners can upgrade. But for the guy who took delivery a few days prior, the price difference can sting of course, and for those who went with, say, the 90D for maximum range as advertised, the current retrofit options are non-existent (that can change down the line).

So, a complex question, certainly.

The P90D seems a little duplicative now. I would think they would just offer the (60D-75D)/90D/100DL now so they just have 3 models technically.

Judging by Tesla's launch history - unless the 90 pack remains for some cost reason, e.g. 100 pack is too expensive to make for anything but a special Ludicrous model - I would expect the 90D/P90D to fade out eventually in favour of a 60D/75D/100D/P100D line-up. Historically Tesla has kept some options for some time to appease both current buyers as well as part logistics. Once those hurdles are cleared, they'll likely clean up the line-up to whatever is their current new target for it.
 
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systemcrashed

Please Reboot
Apr 7, 2016
885
542
USA
Are you kidding? There would be more of an uproar about that. After all the Model X is the most expensive Tesla model so it should get the features first. (Like the ventilated seats, rear cup holders, bioweapon filtering, etc.) If anything the Model X needs the 100 kWh battery more than the Model S. (Though it would be best in the non P versions.)

It will make a huge difference for people towing a trailer. (I wouldn't be surprised if the Model X is available as a 100D before the Model S has the option for a 100D version.)

And you have the option of upgrading your Model X to be the same as the ones that are shipping now. (And I think the P90DLs will hold their value well, as they are less expensive than the P100Ds, have most of the benefitr of the P100D, and are no longer available for purchase.)
I was thinking this same thing, by removing the option to buy the P90DL now, an uniqueness has been established. Hopefully this helps retain its value. On the other hand, the reason we are a bit bummed at this awesome announcement is that Tesla has not held to an annual new model cycle. It is hard for prospective buyers to gauge when they will "jump in" bc they want the latest and best Tesla has to offer for $110k+. Those that did jump in feel the new release was too soon, and to top it off will cost double to get. I'm not saying that delaying the release of new tech that is available now is better, but just not what early adopters are used to. So in 6 months we should expect a new 150kw pack made up of new 21700 cells with a 0-60 time of 2.6s and a range of 350miles (Tesla, take my pre-order now).
 

vangogh

Member
Sep 4, 2015
365
198
Sunnyvale, Ca
I am waiting to hear back from Tesla on whether the 100 kWh pack upgrade will deliver the same new P100D ludicrous performance in my P90DL. I know for the P90D to P90DL retrofit Tesla makes the statement: "The retrofit will not be an exact equivalent performance spec as a new P90D."

The $20K is kind of stupid money for a marginal performance upgrade (and some increased range), but it is amazing performance and that amount is much cheaper than the hit I would take trading my 1 year old car in on a new one. I'm inclined to do the upgrade since Tesla needs some people to step up and help subsidize the cost for the Model 3. ;)

Yes...$20k is a bit much for a small improvement...and what happens when the P125D comes out? I think I will stick with the P90D and upgrade to the best available when my battery needs replacement in 8-10 years (?)....But the P100D model name is very nice...
 
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7racer

Member
Jun 13, 2011
766
81
How do we go about getting in the list to upgrade?? My SC didn't know and suggested an email to sales.
 

shokunin

P85 & M3
Supporting Member
Feb 28, 2012
1,199
634
Irvine, CA
This is the Tesla lifecycle, it's been repeated over and over and the only way to get off the merry-go-round is to get over it and enjoy the car. I got my P85 in 2012 some 5 months later, P85+, a few more months then came parking sensors and folding mirrors, and on and on..

P85D being deliveries in december 2014,
July 2015 then the P90Dv1
2016, P90Dv2 Upgraded 90 pack w/ more power
April 2016, Refreshed Facia,
June 2016 P90Dv3 upgraded 90 pack w/ even more power
August 2016, P100D What's next?

May 2017 and 21700 cells into new packs and the P110D and a AP 2.0.

I still love driving my 2012 P85 even without the latest bells and whistles. For me personally, I'm waiting on AP 2.0 to upgrade.
 
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Martin VanB

Member
Aug 13, 2015
184
112
Canada
My model X is two months old. When I heard about the new battery pack I was a little disappointed.

Yet after thinking about it for a while, I realized i'm driving a pretty amazing car.

I'd rather be driving the car now and be happy than wait for the next latest and greatest all over again.
 

ggnykk

Active Member
Feb 7, 2016
1,573
806
Earth
The early buyers of the Model X take the most hit in term of quality, price and availability. Technically the Model X started to ship out in massive quantities in March, this month is also where all the major quality problems are found on the Xs. About 5 month after, the P100D was introduced. We as early adaptors had really helped Tesla not only to fix quality problems, patient problem, and now the pocket problem! I will continue to support Tesla and willing to upgrade to P100D with Ludicrous Mode on my X, but think retroactively I totally regret getting the X so early. But it is what it is, we trust Tesla and we did help Tesla accelerating sustainable energy for this planet and we did help Tesla to achieve its financial goals to build the Model 3, there should be no regret.

In the end, we have to shed off $20G to upgrade a brand new car that were outdated in five month, personally I am not too happy of it but this is a decision made by Elon and I respect that fully. The one part I am pretty sad about is the ability to upgrade P90DL to P100DL but not available for customers with 90D to upgrade. What happens to those buyers? Getting an ultra expensive car that went instantly obsolete? Trade the X in and get a new X in just couple of month of owning it? This could a problem.
The upgrade from regular 90D to 100D will be available in a few months, most likely. This is when the non-performance 100D will start shipping.
 

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