Are you saying that when you charge to 100% you're getting 280 miles of range? Or are you saying that the 280 miles of range is woth charging set to 90%? Because 280 is about 90% of 310 miles. I thought I was having a rather fast battery degradation from (100%) 325 miles down to 310 miles (after a march 2019 firmware update my original 310 mile range (@ 100%) got upped to 325. But after a firmware update on 10/14/19 (2019.32.12.2 58f3b76) my range @ 100% dropped back to 310 (279-280 when set @90%). I think the firmware change lowered the range back to 310 since the 15 mile range dropped right after, it wasn't a slow, over time, type of drop you'd expect from degradation. I haven't gone up or down in max since.
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10500 miles, 10% “degradation” already?
- Thread starter djrodtc
- Start date
Sorry my OP wasn’t clear, I’m talking 100%.
I do suspect my drop didn’t was gradual, after some upgrade ( don’t recall which version ) y started seeing I was using more % than usual to do my daily commute but I thought It was because of weather or something but some another updates came and the range never came back so Instarted watching the charge in Km/mile and then is when I noticed the drop. But again, as I never used the km/mile indicator I can’t be sure
You probably got one of the not-so-good batteries. I went through all sorts of charging routines and BMS calibration, balancing and so on. Visited the SC a few times. "Everything is normal (TM)".
Some owners even had their CAC reset and were instructed how to charge the car. After a few months they went back to the same degradation. Your battery is not bad enough so that they will change it. The guarantee clearly states 30% degradation.
I'm on the same boat.
Battery Lottery.
Some owners even had their CAC reset and were instructed how to charge the car. After a few months they went back to the same degradation. Your battery is not bad enough so that they will change it. The guarantee clearly states 30% degradation.
I'm on the same boat.
Battery Lottery.
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Multiple points ahead of dubious pointage, be warned.
So, don't hold me to this as I could be entirely wrong. But I think at some point, it was noted that Tesla started "hiding" less of the initial battery degradation. I want to say it was mid or late 2019, so I'm not even sure OP's car would be in that bucket. They definitely do/did hide degradation though: I lost some small number of kWh before it ever impacted the displayed range.
If I'm remembering correctly, most of the current Model 3 fleet is going to be the "older" vehicles that hide part of the initial degradation, skewing that histogram you linked to the right as most of the fleet would have that behaviour. With my remembered theory, a newer vehicle would show more degradation faster via the indicated range.
Another argument could be made for the data that vehicles in the odometer range you specified would actually be mostly newer vehicles due to the low odometer reading, and thus the above theory is moot. This could support either side depending how you interpret the data with the above theory.
Yet another wrench to throw in is it sounds like OP uses Sentry Mode often (@djrodtc does this sound right?). While this doesn't tick up the odometer, it does contribute to the wear of the battery pack over time. Although I expect it to impact a light commuter a lot more and shouldn't be significant in this case (unless the Sentry usage is a lot, like 6 hours or more per day). Note that things like AC usage factor into this as well, technically, including Cabin Overheat Protection.
Final point, TeslaFi is probably massively biased by North American data and a North American climate with North American driving and storage behaviours. I'd say even Canada differs quite a bit from the US in this regard, and I imagine Spain is quite a bit different (but I do not know how, or for certain, or what impacts this may have on battery life).
After all that, I agree with the above poster. Battery lottery.
I use sentry an awful lot, 10 hours per day and then 12 at night... so is basically always on except when I’m driving to/from work.
At work I park at a public parking and at home I live in a flat where the parking is private but there’s been some robberies before so I left sentry on at home too.
PS: I just subscribed to Teslafi so I can track my charging experiments if anybody else can benefit from my data in the future
Oooohhhh ok, so let's take a look here.
22h/day of Sentry usage at an average of about 300W means 6.6kWh used for Sentry every day. That's equivalent to about 28 miles of rated range! You say 50mi/day, so let's say this works out to roughly 55% more energy usage than your mileage would imply.
Basically, you have the battery of a car that's gone about 16,000mi, not 10,500mi. Any comparison to batteries of a similar 10,500mi will show you towards the bottom end, since most people don't use Sentry quite that much (if at all).
I don't want to say that explains it since I don't know how much degradation is "normal" on a 16,000mi car, but that's certainly part of it. Like another poster mentioned, this probably wasn't giving your BMS many chances to properly calibrate either since the battery was almost always in use.
Oh boy... Never thought of that.. well I’m gonna start disabling Sentry both at home and work and see what happens.
Today I work from home so the car will stay at 90% for about 36hours. I’ll report back and see If I have some more miles than yesterday.
To be fair, I don't think Tesla makes this clear enough (if at all). It's mostly enthusiasts on forums that know about this and care.
Since you described a desire for the footage, I'd suggest a dedicated dashcam setup. They use MUCH less power, and some have battery packs so they can keep going even after you leave the car. Those are the ones you would need.
Note that the car will still have an alarm that goes off even if not using Sentry mode.
Thanks, I’m trying to dial down the paranoid in me and only use sentry in unknown places, after all both my place and work has cameras in the premises.
I had to use the car this morning and checked the 100% estimate in the app, the same as yesterday. It’s been at 90% since then, let’s see tomorrow morning in my commute to work if something is different, if there is no change I’ll leave it be and check back in a week so I don’t drive myself crazy with it
Celledral
Member
Luck of the draw. I’ve never had good luck, so I’m not surprised to see my 240miles turn into 215 miles. A lot of people attribute it to weather, however it’s been quite warm recently in SoCal and it’s only getting worse for me. I see 205-209 sometimes. Explained to tesla and they said it was fine.
CertLive
Member
So I have a question. If you sell the Model 3 SR+ at 240 miles range. Why not add an extra 10% capacity to cover the first years big loss? Wouldn't that be better for customers being able to properly estimate the range? Or advertise the car at 220 miles after one year and the extra is a bonus. It would put a lid on this issue. Nothing states that top end is not achievable under the same testing conditions after 6 months. The moment I started using the car is the moment it could not do 240 miles unless I drive slower and slower over time? Really needs build in range cover. Or maybe the new line of batteries gets rid of this.
Tesla is a company and as a company it does what the legislation ask them to do.
It’s like all the other car manufacturers and the fuel consumption rating, in the states you have EPA and that is a lot more realistic than WLTP, and don’t get me started in NEDC.
Everybody knows now that that figures all bullshit, if a car is supposed to burn 3liters per 100km, everybody knows you are never going to see less than 4-5 liters in real world.
Same with electric range and degradation, until the government doesn’t force cars manufacturers to publish their degradation estimates only die hard users like us will know even such a thing exists.
PS: now my 100% is at 455km / 282 miles so I’m gonna stop checking daily and check weekly but I’m not counting on that range to make a comeback
Ok... what about people with the LR and Performance? How would they get this bump when they are maxed out already?
I have a 2019 LR AWD. Started out at 310 at 100% when I first got it. Kept charging to either 80% or 90% overnight, every night for quite some time. About 279 at 90% for quite some time. Recently I've been keeping it lower as I was not using as much energy each week so set it at about 60%. It seemed to stay I believe around 170 or so for quite some time charging to 60%, It has almost 13k on it now and recently I decided to go back to keeping it at 90% overnight. Now I'm getting 263 at 90% and at 100% when I last charged it, I was around 280. Also, last time I tried to charge to 100%, it never got above 98% indicated while plugged in. So I thought that was really odd.
By the way, I never really charge to 100%. Maybe less than 5 times since I got it in March 2019. I decided to try charging to 100% and then driving until I got below 5% and recharge to 100% to see if it made a difference. That's because when I went from 60% to 90% and saw the reduction to see if it would rebalance. It didn't. I opened an issue with the service center and will have them look into it to make sure there are no issues.
By the way, I never really charge to 100%. Maybe less than 5 times since I got it in March 2019. I decided to try charging to 100% and then driving until I got below 5% and recharge to 100% to see if it made a difference. That's because when I went from 60% to 90% and saw the reduction to see if it would rebalance. It didn't. I opened an issue with the service center and will have them look into it to make sure there are no issues.
They sort of do, or at least they used to. But I'm not sure what I'm thinking of is what you mean.
When I picked up my car and it said whatever it said for range at 100% (500km? 499km? Honestly can't remember), that stayed constant for quite some time. However, if you look at the internals with ScanMyTesla or something like it, you'll see the actual estimated capacity going down for a little bit with no change in the displayed range. At some point, it finally starts showing as a reduction in range. If I take my near-new estimated pack capacity (in kWh) compared to now, the difference is greater than the difference in reported "range" reduction.
This "hides" the some of the initial expected loss for most people, as well as allows for variability between new packs. Gradual degradation still occurs, but you miss out on the scarier initial dip being reported to you.
I sort of agree that nothing up front says the battery degrades in the first 6 months (and forever more), but this is rather common knowledge. See: people expecting EVs to only last 2-3 years because that's how long phone batteries tend to last, with most people noticing they get worse over time.
I also don't think it's in Tesla's interest (or any EV manufacturer's interest) to state a reduced range capability from new. It's marketing. You want the bigger number, since everyone is playing the same bigger number game. There's sort of some guidelines for those numbers (e.g. EPA in North America). Tesla does de-rate these numbers a bit I think (EPA testing uses the full battery to my understanding, but there's a buffer we can't actually use for driving on the bottom end of the capacity -- it would be very inaccurate then to use those numbers directly to my understanding). But yes, it does mean the highest range you will ever achieve is on Day 1, and ever-decreasing from there, bit by bit.
In my experience, this is generally due to temperature (cold). Perhaps not as cold as you think, and perhaps only relatively (i.e. if the battery finished the charge at 30C, and it cooled overnight to 15C in the morning, it might report less percentage in the morning). This is made worse by rounding. Basically 100% can be 99.5%, and the 98% you saw could be 98.49% in theory, meaning potentially only a ~1% difference at minimum.
Hi @Zoomit , I’m now at 358km / 284.5 miles, up from 451km / 280 miles ).
Not a lot by it’s something, this is from just charging to 90, should I try go under 20% and supercharge to 100%?
That could help the BMS calibration. There needs to be a rest period before and after a charge for the BMS to use it as a calibration point. I don’t know how long that needs to be. It might be 15 min to over a hour, I just don’t know. Waiting before and after the charge at a Supercharger could make for a challenging charge session. For that reason, doing this at home would be preferable.
I'm in South Florida. Cold is never really a factor. We don't get below 70F too often.
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