Model S AP 1 when does the car take evasive action?

[Wshowell]

I'm looking for a definitive answer on something I’ve been wondering since I bought my S over a year ago. Please answer if you know for certain. While driving with AP 1.0 enabled on the Highway driving parallel to another car/truck/semi if that person drifts into your lane and the sonar sensors “see” him, will the car take evasive action to not get side swiped (like swerve)? This is the situation I encounter most frequently that forces me to override Autopilot. It’s usually proceeded by me yelling “stay in your own F’in lane you %&*#@ texting idiot!!!!!”

 

[chillaban]

Way too late, or never. This is "side collision avoidance" and it's only active at certain speed ranges and in areas where the ADAS map tiles say to enable side collision avoidance.

Unfortunately you can't really rely on it, since not all vehicles will be at a height that triggers your SONAR parking sensors, and cross winds and other factors could temporarily blind those sensors. You have no way of knowing, at a given time, if side collision avoidance is going to happen or not.


Taking over when you're unsure is still the right thing to do. AP2.0 in the long run seems like it'll be using cameras to monitor cars beside you, but that's not an option in AP1.

 

[Wshowell]

Way too late, or never. This is "side collision avoidance" and it's only active at certain speed ranges and in areas where the ADAS map tiles say to enable side collision avoidance.

Unfortunately you can't really rely on it, since not all vehicles will be at a height that triggers your SONAR parking sensors, and cross winds and other factors could temporarily blind those sensors. You have no way of knowing, at a given time, if side collision avoidance is going to happen or not.


Taking over when you're unsure is still the right thing to do. AP2.0 in the long run seems like it'll be using cameras to monitor cars beside you, but that's not an option in AP1.

Thank you. That’s what I was concluding after a few too many close calls with line drifters.

 

[David29]

... it's only active at certain speed ranges and in areas where the ADAS map tiles say ...

Pardon my ignorance, but what are "ADAS map tiles?"

 

[chillaban]

Pardon my ignorance, but what are "ADAS map tiles?"

No worries -- Tesla Autopilot maps

It's a bit of a long read, but long story short, completely separate from the navigation maps (and the other navigation maps in the IC), there's actually "map tiles" used by Autopilot with road geometry, speeds through curves, radar braking whitelist, and other information.

 

[Max*]

Evasive Actions? Nah, that's at least AP 4.

 

[ColdRauv]

I cannot speak to any automatic evasive action mechanism, but I can confirm that while on AP1, and semi trailers get too close while passing them, the danger sound and red text shows on the bottom of the drivers display, ordering you to take immediate control of the wheel.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

I don't believe AP1 ever takes "evasive action". It alerts you, but it doesn't steer you out of harm's way. I think that's a wive's tale. You'll need FSD for anything like that.

 

[Max*]

I don't believe AP1 ever takes "evasive action". It alerts you, but it doesn't steer you out of harm's way. I think that's a wive's tale. You'll need FSD for anything like that.

Incorrect. It does have side collision avoidance. It sucks, but it's there. Link

Had it trigger twice in almost 3 years. Neither time was I in danger. Other times when I was in "more" danger, it would not trigger at all.

 

[David29]

Incorrect. It does have side collision avoidance. It sucks, but it's there. Link

Had it trigger twice in almost 3 years. Neither time was I in danger. Other times when I was in "more" danger, it would not trigger at all.

Reading the linked post, it suddenly occurred to me that I have also experienced that, or something similar. There is an exit ramp that I take somewhat regularly from I-95 to a local road (in Dedham MA). Something about the geometry of the ramp seems to trigger a response from the car, not just an alarm but also it tightens up the steering wheel and I have to overcome it to steer the way i want. I have wondered what sets it off -- the curvature of the ramp, the nearness of the guard rails, or possibly the fact that there are rock walls on one side where the ramp is cut through a hill. Maybe I will try to test that and see what the car does if I do not overcome the steering....

 

[mcbarnet007]

I've noticed some form of evasive action on AP1 while driving on I-5 between Bay Area and LA. If my car is too close to the adjacent vehicle, it makes minor adjustment to move away from them. The adjustments are pretty subtle and slow so you may think the car is just drifting in the lanes. However, I've noticed this on multiple occasions so I don't think it's just coincidence.

 

[David29]

Here is what the Owner's Manual (January 2016 edition for version 7.1 of the software) says about this, in the section under "Lane Assist:"

"In addition to warnings described above, Lane Assist provides steering interventions if Model S drifts into (or close to) an adjacent lane in which an object, such as a vehicle, is detected. In these situations, Model S automatically steers to a safer position in its driving lane. This steering is applied only when Model S is traveling between 30 mph (50 km/h) and 85 mph (140 km/h) on major roadways with clearly visible lane markings. When corrective steering is applied, the instrument panel briefly displays a warning message. Note: Corrective steering is not applied when Autosteer is active." (Bold added for emphasis by me.)

So to me, the critical elements are what is in bold, namely that the adjustment is apparently limited to moving within the same lane, and it does not make these adjustments if Autosteer is active. But one does wonder if Autosteer would not make the same adjustments. In either case, it might be hard to tell for sure that an adjustment has been made, because the lateral movement might be quite limited, depending upon the width of the lane.

I will have to pay closer attention!

 

[AWDtsla]

Incorrect. It does have side collision avoidance. It sucks, but it's there. Link

Had it trigger twice in almost 3 years. Neither time was I in danger. Other times when I was in "more" danger, it would not trigger at all.

Works great during a winter weather when the ultrasonics are constantly misfiring. Getting the wheel yanked to one side on slippery roads is just awesome. Can't believe no has crashed yet because of it.

What's the probability we hear about the lawsuit if the guy suing doesn't post it himself? (Like the guy that sued over defective regen vs stability control logic)

 

[Zythryn]

Works great during a winter weather when the ultrasonics are constantly misfiring. Getting the wheel yanked to one side on slippery roads is just awesome. Can't believe no has crashed yet because of it.

What's the probability we hear about the lawsuit if the guy suing doesn't post it himself? (Like the guy that sued over defective regen vs stability control logic)

Interesting, I have been driving Tesla vehicles the entire time AP1 has been available. We often have sloppy roads and lots of snow (MN), heck we had 5 inches of heavy snow this morning.
I have yet to have the wheel "yanked" to one side. Only once did I have any sort of false positive that affected the car and that was a momentary braking issue (car slowed briefly).
If you are experiencing this, I would recommend having service check it out.

 

[AWDtsla]

If you are experiencing this, I would recommend having service check it out.

This would be the equivalent of going into Target and yelling at a cashier over their prices.

There is nothing for service to do.

 

[Zythryn]

This would be the equivalent of going into Target and yelling at a cashier over their prices.

There is nothing for service to do.

I don't believe so.
When we get snow or ice covering sensors we will get a few false positives that result in warnings regarding the parking sensors. Nothing that actually affects the steering wheel.
If a false positive is causing the steering wheel to "yank" to one side or another, I believe that is not working as intended and is a safety hazard.
If that is happening, Tesla should be notified ASAP.

 

[AWDtsla]

I don't believe so.
When we get snow or ice covering sensors we will get a few false positives that result in warnings regarding the parking sensors. Nothing that actually affects the steering wheel.
If a false positive is causing the steering wheel to "yank" to one side or another, I believe that is not working as intended and is a safety hazard.
If that is happening, Tesla should be notified ASAP.

It is not hard to discover. They need to be finding these things themselves. Just like regen's interaction with stability control. To this day they still don't have an "off" setting for that. Frankly, that's a bigger problem - and if I'm going to try and break through Tesla Service's idiot filter it would be over something like that. What are they doing with $1.4 billion of R&D per year? Good engineers are expensive, but not that expensive.

My solution has been to stop taking the car out in winter weather. Much more comfortable with an old Subaru beater with 2 locking diffs, no stability control, and dumb cruise control. At least your fate is in your own hands.

 

[Zythryn]

It is not hard to discover. They need to be finding these things themselves. Just like regen's interaction with stability control. To this day they still don't have an "off" setting for that. Frankly, that's a bigger problem - and if I'm going to try and break through Tesla Service's idiot filter it would be over something like that. What are they doing with $1.4 billion of R&D per year? Good engineers are expensive, but not that expensive.

My solution has been to stop taking the car out in winter weather. Much more comfortable with an old Subaru beater with 2 locking diffs, no stability control, and dumb cruise control. At least your fate is in your own hands.

Fair enough, but I don't see it as difficult to report. Neither me, nor my wife have ever experienced AP doing that. If I had, I would report it.
You do yourself, Tesla and anyone else that may ever experience such an issue a disservice.

 

[AWDtsla]

Fair enough, but I don't see it as difficult to report. Neither me, nor my wife have ever experienced AP doing that. If I had, I would report it.
You do yourself, Tesla and anyone else that may ever experience such an issue a disservice.

If Tesla asked me for feedback, I would gladly give it. They have never. I have tried in the past to report things to service, I've gotten the standard service/support response, and I don't feel battling with them to get a message through to engineering. It's like yelling at a cashier about store prices, like I said above.

 

[Muzzman1]

@Wshowell
I feel the same as you, that you need to be vigilant and ready to take control, but I have experienced AP1 take "evasive" action on a couple instances.
Here I was driving in the fast lane and the BMW in front began to drift into my lane at which point my AP hit the brakes and moved (almost) into the lane on the left.
Then you can hear me disengage AP to pass him as I figured he must be drunk/texting

Another time, as I entered the off ramp with AP disengaged (0:46) on the video you can hear the music mute and 3 small beeps. At that time, autosteer veered my car away from the guard rail it thought I was going to scrub