110 vs 240 charging

[Doug_G]

3 km per hour is completely reasonable... but not at -20C. At those temperatures you'll get little charging, as all the power goes into pack heating. It does help a lot if you could park indoors, so the car isn't exposed to wind.

 

[green1]

3 km per hour is completely reasonable... but not at -20C. At those temperatures you'll get little charging, as all the power goes into pack heating. It does help a lot if you could park indoors, so the car isn't exposed to wind.

That's guaranteed not to be an option.
I know this is doable in the summer, but I'm not going in the summer...

It's really starting to sound like we're road tripping in the VW rabbit instead of the Model S
Take note all those who have said that range anxiety doesn't exist! In the ICE we won't have to fill up on the trip, in the Tesla 2 supercharger stops still won't cover it.

 

[mknox]

Take note all those who have said that range anxiety doesn't exist! In the ICE we won't have to fill up on the trip, in the Tesla 2 supercharger stops still won't cover it.

Oh, it still exists, but in my experiences with the Model S it really only comes in to play on road trips. I typically have way more juice than I need in a typical day, and "re-fueling" at home is just so convenient.

I am leaving tomorrow for Chicago from Toronto and I have been obsessing over it. I've mapped out my route, looked at options and even borrowed a CHAdeMO adapter from another owner "just in case". I've done the trip a number of times in summer, but usually by myself. This will be my first winter trip, and I'll have the family in the car including my 87 year old mother. The last thing I want is to be stuck somewhere in winter conditions. With the ICE car, we'd just get in and go. But with the Tesla there is still some anxiety in my mind.

 

[AWDtsla]

Take note all those who have said that range anxiety doesn't exist! In the ICE we won't have to fill up on the trip, in the Tesla 2 supercharger stops still won't cover it.

You just don't have enough superchargers yet. Same problem here normal speeds plus winter. Realistic range is 180ish, but you also don't want to freeze to death if anything happens so more like 120.

 

[green1]

I just got a VERY unexpected surprise in my inbox today! seems the EV gods are smiling on me this month!

3.5 hour drive each way in the Model S will be so much nicer than 3 each way in a VW Rabbit! (extra half hour to stop briefly at the supercharger)

 

[AWDtsla]

I just got a VERY unexpected surprise in my inbox today! seems the EV gods are smiling on me this month!

3.5 hour drive each way in the Model S will be so much nicer than 3 each way in a VW Rabbit! (extra half hour to stop briefly at the supercharger)

bad link

 

[green1]

bad link

Sorry, worked fine for me, should be fixed now.

 

[nwdiver]

I know this is an old thread, but I thought it might be better to post here than to create another similar thread.

I have a bit of a trip coming up that could cause me some pain. I'm heading to a place in the middle of nowhere, in January, in Canada. The closest supercharger is too far away to make the round trip, and the only one I can find on plugshare between the two is in an inconvenient spot, only 9kw, and without additional charging I'd need to stop there both ways, I'd like to avoid that if possible.
I'm not expecting any 240v charging at the destination (though I do have an email in to them with some wishful thinking) I suspect they'll only have 110v available (even that is not guaranteed, and if they don't I won't have much choice but to use the ICE)

I have calculated, with some help from EV trip planner, that I need to achieve an absolute minimum of 3km/hr (1.8miles/hr) of charge while I'm there to reach the supercharger on the way home (not counting any losses while parked, could be relevant?)
I'm expecting temperatures in the range of -15 to -20 c (5 to -5 F) though it could dip colder at night.
I'll start with a warm battery from a long drive, but will be charging for 2 days so not sure how warm the battery will stay

I know those rates of charge would be quite doable in the summer, but I'm worried in the cold it might be different.

Am I crazy to attempt this? or does this seem reasonable on a 110v outlet? Really don't want to take the ICE if I can avoid it, the Tesla is just so much nicer, especially on road trips!

Most Air conditioners that plug into the wall... found in A LOT of hotels older than ~15 years; pretty much any hotel where you park outside your door... are 220 (usually 208v) and 20 amps. I've charged off these on a few occasions; you can usually get a good ~3kW charge rate off them... I wouldn't try to pull more than 18 amps or you risk tripping the breaker.

This.... this may not have been to code.... but it worked

You do have to choose between heat or charging your car....

 

[green1]

This particular location is more hostel than hotel, so that sort of thing wasn't going to happen, also choosing no heat in the room at -20c doesn't sound like a great plan either. Luckily as I posted up thread, I got a huge surprise in my email yesterday when they sent me a picture of a nema 14-50 on a wood post that they say I can use. was not expecting this at all from a place like this!
I have had 2 occasions so far this fall though where that charging method would have been really good, so that adapter is on my "to build" list before the next trip to that sort of place.

 

[FlasherZ]

I just got a VERY unexpected surprise in my inbox today! seems the EV gods are smiling on me this month!

3.5 hour drive each way in the Model S will be so much nicer than 3 each way in a VW Rabbit! (extra half hour to stop briefly at the supercharger)

Great to see! I don't believe it's legal (NM cable in the US isn't legal, and I believe it's the same for CEC... but I won't say anything while you charge. ) Perhaps temporary for you, which would be great news - be sure you post the location (if you think others might go there).

 

[Tedkidd]

Put 'em up on plugshare?

 

[Cyclone]

I just got a VERY unexpected surprise in my inbox today! seems the EV gods are smiling on me this month!

View attachment 104917

3.5 hour drive each way in the Model S will be so much nicer than 3 each way in a VW Rabbit! (extra half hour to stop briefly at the supercharger)

I don't mean to rain on your parade, but have your backup plan ready (including any 120v extensions) just in case should this 14-50 not function properly.

 

[green1]

I have a couple backups, none are pleasant, I can charge on 110, and I have a very heavy duty extension cord for 110, I also have an adapter to take two 110s on different phases and make 208/240, If both those options fail there's the Peavey Mart charger that I hope I could limp back to (hypermiling would be needed), but then I'd be stuck there for about 4-6 hours.

As for plugshare, I will be asking them for permission to post it there, but will respect their wishes. (I can't see them saying no, but they may specify that it's for guest use only)

That does not appear to be a temporary solution for me, it seems to be something they already had, though for what I can't even really guess. As for code, In this area that wire is acceptable for direct buried applications, however to meet code it would need to be protected in conduit for the exposed section up to the outlet (which it is not) This however won't change the ability to charge at all, and unless I'm planning to attack the base of that post with a weedeater or shovel, is perfectly safe.

 

[FlasherZ]

That does not appear to be a temporary solution for me, it seems to be something they already had, though for what I can't even really guess. As for code, In this area that wire is acceptable for direct buried applications, however to meet code it would need to be protected in conduit for the exposed section up to the outlet (which it is not) This however won't change the ability to charge at all, and unless I'm planning to attack the base of that post with a weedeater or shovel, is perfectly safe.

Yeah, I couldn't tell whether it was NMW(U) or whether they were using NMD cable. 300V would seem to indicate NMW, but some brief searches wouldn't confirm. As you note, it's unlikely someone would attack it and render it a safety hazard. While not perfectly safe, direct-burial cable is generally safe.

 

[green1]

Well looks like I'm doing an unexpected trial today. I'm at a location right now for the next 24hrs. I thought I'd be able to charge at 240 (or 208) but I'm only able to use 110v (116v) though luckily it's a 20A outlet.
I arrived with 169km of range, I need about 230-250km to make it home tomorrow night.
Now for the catch. Car was reporting -22c (about -8f) when I pulled in. Should be interesting...

 

[Tedkidd]

Well looks like I'm doing an unexpected trial today. I'm at a location right now for the next 24hrs. I thought I'd be able to charge at 240 (or 208) but I'm only able to use 110v (116v) though luckily it's a 20A outlet.
I arrived with 169km of range, I need about 230-250km to make it home tomorrow night.
Now for the catch. Car was reporting -22c (about -8f) when I pulled in. Should be interesting...

Too many math translations for my pea brain...

20 amps at 110 translates to roughly 20km per hour charge rate, meaning you need minimum 4 hours charging? Possibly double for the cold?

Will you stop charging at 250 range, then restart charging 2 hours before departure to attempt to have a warm pack and car?

 

[green1]

Too many math translations for my pea brain...

20 amps at 110 translates to roughly 20km per hour charge rate, meaning you need minimum 4 hours charging? Possibly double for the cold?

Will you stop charging at 250 range, then restart charging 2 hours before departure to attempt to have a warm pack and car?

20a outlet isn't 20a charging, it's 16a
I'm cheating and have the car set to 17a (which I probably shouldn't, but I'm willing to risk it this time)
I have it set to charge to 90% and am getting 9km/hr right now. Car estimates 22hrs 50mins to go (which is within 10 mins of my scheduled departure time). But the real question will be whether it slows down or speeds up as time goes on in the cold. Keep in mind it started warm after a two hour drive, and it's really cold out right now. So it may have to dedicate increasing amounts of the current to heating as time goes on. I'm curious to see.

 

[AWDtsla]

20a outlet isn't 20a charging, it's 16a
I'm cheating and have the car set to 17a (which I probably shouldn't, but I'm willing to risk it this time)
I have it set to charge to 90% and am getting 9km/hr right now. Car estimates 22hrs 50mins to go (which is within 10 mins of my scheduled departure time). But the real question will be whether it slows down or speeds up as time goes on in the cold. Keep in mind it started warm after a two hour drive, and it's really cold out right now. So it may have to dedicate increasing amounts of the current to heating as time goes on. I'm curious to see.

The pack heater is 5kW. I don't know what's the maximum it could draw for charging, but you could basically see a power draw instead of charging while pulling current from shore. I see it's going to be -5F in Alberta tonight so I would be heating will be necessary. Try using powertools or remote S to see battery power/amps. I've gotten my car to go -2kW to the pack while still pulling almost 10kW from shore, by turning on the heater and max battery heating at the same time.

 

[green1]

The pack heater is 5kW. I don't know what's the maximum it could draw for charging, but you could basically see a power draw instead of charging while pulling current from shore. I see it's going to be -5F in Alberta tonight so I would be heating will be necessary. Try using powertools or remote S to see battery power/amps. I've gotten my car to go -2kW to the pack while still pulling almost 10kW from shore, by turning on the heater and max battery heating at the same time.

Only "computer" I have access to here is my phone, so I'm limited to the official app, or Web based things. So far I've added 11km in 1hr 20 mins. Hopefully by morning we're still adding and not subtracting.
On a side note, subtracting range instead of adding is a stupid decision, the worst it should ever do is shut down the charging and not add range.

 

[AWDtsla]

Only "computer" I have access to here is my phone, so I'm limited to the official app, or Web based things. So far I've added 11km in 1hr 20 mins. Hopefully by morning we're still adding and not subtracting.
On a side note, subtracting range instead of adding is a stupid decision, the worst it should ever do is shut down the charging and not add range.

Both are available on iOS.