TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

11k miles (and 18 months) S60 only showing 168 miles range on full charge :(

Discussion in 'Model S' started by smac, Dec 26, 2015.

  1. smac

    smac Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1,121
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire
    Do I hold the record for the lowest range of a fully charged Model S?
     
  2. Reeler

    Reeler 6 Years of Pure EV

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2015
    Messages:
    647
    There are S40s out there so probably not.
     
  3. dhrivnak

    dhrivnak Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,150
    Location:
    NE Tennessee
    Ideal miles or standard miles. If standard I have managed well below that after a track day.
     
  4. dirkhh

    dirkhh Middle-aged Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2013
    Messages:
    3,645
    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    On a range charge (100%)? That's pretty low.
    On a regular 90% charge this seems fairly normal
     
  5. KJennerator

    KJennerator Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2012
    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Lowell, Massachusetts
    Our Model S 60 has a hair over 50,000 miles on it. At a standard charge (~90%?) it shows about 175 miles rated range.
     
  6. Discoducky

    Discoducky Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2011
    Messages:
    2,884
    Location:
    Seattle
    I'm at 169 rated miles on 90% charge, current latest software, measured when charging has recently stopped in a 56 degrees garage. This value is easily repeatable after just about any daily usage.
     
  7. smac

    smac Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1,121
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire
    Good point!

    - - - Updated - - -


    100% charge!

    - - - Updated - - -

    "typical" miles I'm in the UK, so the settings are subtly different.

    - - - Updated - - -

    My car is charged in a sheltered spot on our driveway. Yesterday it was 50f when we set off.

    With original software and brand new, I got similar figures to everyone else. Now whether it's degradation, or software is a different matter. Seemingly every release note I get has some blurb about "improvements to range calculation to better reflect real world use"

    Yesterday I drove to my parents 160 mile round trip, and at 345 Wh/mi average (it was windy), the range decrease was matching the odometer increase.

    The car has only been Supercharged 3 times, and all 3 were quick top-ups of < 100 miles. My avg. Wh/mi is hovering around 330. The battery has been kept between 50 and 70% SOC for most of it's life. IOW I wouldn't expect it to be a prime candidate for degradation.
     
  8. dirkhh

    dirkhh Middle-aged Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2013
    Messages:
    3,645
    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    At 100% this is indeed a significant loss of range - around 15%. I'd talk to Tesla about it.

    One thing that I noticed with my 60 was that if I frequently charged to 70% and not all the way to 90+% the range calculation got all weird. One good way to make sure your car has a good guess on its range is to charge to 100%, then drive it down to single digits rated miles remaining, then charge it back up to 100%. This allows the battery management unit to reset both ends of the range.
     
  9. apacheguy

    apacheguy Sig 255, VIN 320

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2012
    Messages:
    3,718
    Location:
    So Cal
    OP - Ask specific questions when you go into service. Otherwise, I guarantee you will get the following as a response:

    1. Pulled logs and everything appears normal.
    2. Customer complains of decreasing range. The range algorithm adjusts lower due to colder temperatures.
     
  10. smac

    smac Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1,121
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire
    Thanks Dirk,

    Yep this technique has been mentioned by another TMC member (via PM). I will have to give it a go.

    Only problem is finding somewhere I need to be to do the mileage, most days I barely do 20 miles in the car., and spanning it over 10 days I'm not convinced is ideal.


    Hmm maybe a mini road trip of some sort should be on the cards over our Xmas break...
     
  11. dirkhh

    dirkhh Middle-aged Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2013
    Messages:
    3,645
    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    Yeah, this is known to work if you really drive the distance right after charging. Doing it over a week might have the same effect, but I'm not sure. Find a decent restaurant about 80 miles away from you. Drive there for lunch and back after lunch. :)
     
  12. smac

    smac Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1,121
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire
    Going to try doing a full charge discharge cycle and see if that helps first.

    It's great to see other's figures, and how they are much larger. But I am taking this with a slight pinch of salt as I'm strongly of the opinion the UK calc is subtly different (and there are only a handful of 60s here) Maybe one of the EU car owners can shed some light on their rating (in KM or miles).

    It would be nice to actually have an idea of what it should read in perfect conditions before going back to Tesla, otherwise I'm fighting this a little blind TBH.
     
  13. smac

    smac Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1,121
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire
    OK I got scientific about it, and decided to try some tips and tricks others have suggested. I.e. 100% charge then down to zero (in one go.)

    So I set the car to get to 90% early this morning to get a baseline: 155 miles "typical". 197 miles "rated"
    I then charged it fully to 100%: 171 "typical" 218 miles "rated"


    Immediately the charge had finished I drove off, A/c on, heated seats on, radio playing, jelly babies in hand.


    I headed out through 30 miles of mixed 30/40/50 limit roads: My village, the A614, then up the A1 heading north (on the basis there are no average speed cameras along that stretch) . Driving with cruise set at 70 mph, in flowing traffic, with the odd burst of passing speed.


    When the battery got to 52%, I turned round and retraced my steps to try and eliminate any wind impact. (though it was quite still today)


    Some minor traffic hold ups, with one or two spots dropping down to almost stationary, but getting back to 70 on the cruise as quickly as possible.


    5 minutes into the return leg I'd set my home as the destination on the Sat Nav, and immediately it tried to route me via Tankersley Moor (Supercharger). I removed the charging stops, and it started complaining I would have to drive at 45 miles an hour.


    I simply ignored it, carried on at 70, still with the A/C on. This wasn't me being contrary or reckless, I could see the avg. Wh and predicted range in the energy app, and knew the distance was comfortably achievable if I continued as I had been going. (And worst case I'd have to slow down a little).


    I kept fighting the Sat Nav all the way back, it trying to reroute me on occasion, then complaining it didn't have enough charge.


    In the end it was VERY close, I arrived home with 1 mile predicted and 0% (I was feeling bullish enough to see if there was some emergency reserve!!). But and it's a big one I paid no attention to any of it's advice. If I had I speculate I'd have saved 10-20 miles range.


    Anyway end result:
    188.4 miles in 3h35. Making an overall door to door average speed of 52.6mph (which is respectable for mixed UK roads)
    56kWh usable battery (to the decimal point which is interesting)
    297 wH/mi average.
    (Nearly a burst bladder :))


    And as it's the Internet, and there is no proof without photos:


    Full range.jpg

    I did some video commentary of the test, and will post them up on Youtube after I've edited them together.
     
  14. dalamchops

    dalamchops Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2014
    Messages:
    131
    Location:
    lam
    That's pretty much no degradation if you were able to pull 56kwh out of a 60kwh car.
     
  15. smac

    smac Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1,121
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire
    Yep it's encouraging I've got no degradation (and as you say 56kWh seems pretty darn good). The actual range is plenty too.

    It's the calc being so off that is more annoying. It has all sorts of subtle side effects, the sat nav is nigh on pointless, as the range assurance stuff just gets completely confused and sends you on wild goose chases to Superchargers when not needed. You can't rely on the miles added charging either (though less of an issue as I can do some mental arithmetic to correct the pessimistic ratings.)


    The car is currently sat charging back to 90%, I will see if the calc has gone back to the levels it had when I first got the car, or if this is a UK 60 foible introduced with v6.0
     
  16. JonathanD

    JonathanD Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2014
    Messages:
    107
    Location:
    OC, CA
    I had a similar (but not as acute) situation on my 2014 S60 with about the same mileage. Full charge went from 209 (initial pick-up) to 188. They did a battery analysis and said everything was fine, but that if I did a full charge about once a week or so it would give the software a better dataset on which to do the calculation. Sure enough a couple months later and after a half-dozen full charges, it's back up in the high 190s.

    I also noticed with the cool temps (cool for Southern CA anyway) I've been getting great efficiency. Driving 80mph on the freeway and still just under 300 Wh/mi.
     
  17. Rifleman

    Rifleman Now owns 2 Model S's!!!

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2011
    Messages:
    936
    Location:
    Harrison Ohio
    My S60 (vin 38xxx with 30,000 miles on it) is at 168 at 90%
    My wifes S60 (vin 08xxx with 38,000 miles on it) is at 182 at 90%

    It seems like the 60's are all over the place.
     
  18. smac

    smac Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1,121
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire
    Weird. Do they have the same pack letter. Mine (VIN 37xxx) is a "B"
     
  19. fluxemag

    fluxemag Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2013
    Messages:
    342
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    I have a 2013 S40 with 32k miles. I tried a similar test, charging to the maximum allowed and then driving out and back (trying to hit 300Wh/mi) until the car hit zero miles rated range. I start out with 130 miles rated each day, and obviously have never been able to 100% charge or supercharge. I believe the limit is 72%. With 1 mile remaining, I had consumed 36.2kWh over 119.8 miles at 302Wh/mi. I have no idea how to interpret that, since 72% of 60kWh is 43.2kWh, and there is a buffer at the top and the bottom of the battery charge range (minus any deg).

    ScreenHunter_4618 Dec. 29 13.59.jpg

    Also note the hilariously wrong album art...
     
  20. glhs272

    glhs272 Unnamed plug faced villian

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2013
    Messages:
    791
    Location:
    Burlington, WI
    I concur with the others.. If you were able to pull 56kwh out of your battery, then you have essentially zero degradation. You can't get the nameplate 60kwh out of your battery, and 56kwh is about exactly what I was able to get out of my car when it was new. The concern about the low range calculation is indeed just a calculation error. Drive happy!
     

Share This Page