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Discussion in 'Model S' started by smac, Dec 26, 2015.
Do I hold the record for the lowest range of a fully charged Model S?
There are S40s out there so probably not.
Ideal miles or standard miles. If standard I have managed well below that after a track day.
On a range charge (100%)? That's pretty low.
On a regular 90% charge this seems fairly normal
Our Model S 60 has a hair over 50,000 miles on it. At a standard charge (~90%?) it shows about 175 miles rated range.
I'm at 169 rated miles on 90% charge, current latest software, measured when charging has recently stopped in a 56 degrees garage. This value is easily repeatable after just about any daily usage.
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"typical" miles I'm in the UK, so the settings are subtly different.
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My car is charged in a sheltered spot on our driveway. Yesterday it was 50f when we set off.
With original software and brand new, I got similar figures to everyone else. Now whether it's degradation, or software is a different matter. Seemingly every release note I get has some blurb about "improvements to range calculation to better reflect real world use"
Yesterday I drove to my parents 160 mile round trip, and at 345 Wh/mi average (it was windy), the range decrease was matching the odometer increase.
The car has only been Supercharged 3 times, and all 3 were quick top-ups of < 100 miles. My avg. Wh/mi is hovering around 330. The battery has been kept between 50 and 70% SOC for most of it's life. IOW I wouldn't expect it to be a prime candidate for degradation.
At 100% this is indeed a significant loss of range - around 15%. I'd talk to Tesla about it.
One thing that I noticed with my 60 was that if I frequently charged to 70% and not all the way to 90+% the range calculation got all weird. One good way to make sure your car has a good guess on its range is to charge to 100%, then drive it down to single digits rated miles remaining, then charge it back up to 100%. This allows the battery management unit to reset both ends of the range.
OP - Ask specific questions when you go into service. Otherwise, I guarantee you will get the following as a response:
1. Pulled logs and everything appears normal.
2. Customer complains of decreasing range. The range algorithm adjusts lower due to colder temperatures.
Yep this technique has been mentioned by another TMC member (via PM). I will have to give it a go.
Only problem is finding somewhere I need to be to do the mileage, most days I barely do 20 miles in the car., and spanning it over 10 days I'm not convinced is ideal.
Hmm maybe a mini road trip of some sort should be on the cards over our Xmas break...
Yeah, this is known to work if you really drive the distance right after charging. Doing it over a week might have the same effect, but I'm not sure. Find a decent restaurant about 80 miles away from you. Drive there for lunch and back after lunch.
Going to try doing a full charge discharge cycle and see if that helps first.
It's great to see other's figures, and how they are much larger. But I am taking this with a slight pinch of salt as I'm strongly of the opinion the UK calc is subtly different (and there are only a handful of 60s here) Maybe one of the EU car owners can shed some light on their rating (in KM or miles).
It would be nice to actually have an idea of what it should read in perfect conditions before going back to Tesla, otherwise I'm fighting this a little blind TBH.
OK I got scientific about it, and decided to try some tips and tricks others have suggested. I.e. 100% charge then down to zero (in one go.)
So I set the car to get to 90% early this morning to get a baseline: 155 miles "typical". 197 miles "rated"
I then charged it fully to 100%: 171 "typical" 218 miles "rated"
Immediately the charge had finished I drove off, A/c on, heated seats on, radio playing, jelly babies in hand.
I headed out through 30 miles of mixed 30/40/50 limit roads: My village, the A614, then up the A1 heading north (on the basis there are no average speed cameras along that stretch) . Driving with cruise set at 70 mph, in flowing traffic, with the odd burst of passing speed.
When the battery got to 52%, I turned round and retraced my steps to try and eliminate any wind impact. (though it was quite still today)
Some minor traffic hold ups, with one or two spots dropping down to almost stationary, but getting back to 70 on the cruise as quickly as possible.
5 minutes into the return leg I'd set my home as the destination on the Sat Nav, and immediately it tried to route me via Tankersley Moor (Supercharger). I removed the charging stops, and it started complaining I would have to drive at 45 miles an hour.
I simply ignored it, carried on at 70, still with the A/C on. This wasn't me being contrary or reckless, I could see the avg. Wh and predicted range in the energy app, and knew the distance was comfortably achievable if I continued as I had been going. (And worst case I'd have to slow down a little).
I kept fighting the Sat Nav all the way back, it trying to reroute me on occasion, then complaining it didn't have enough charge.
In the end it was VERY close, I arrived home with 1 mile predicted and 0% (I was feeling bullish enough to see if there was some emergency reserve!!). But and it's a big one I paid no attention to any of it's advice. If I had I speculate I'd have saved 10-20 miles range.
Anyway end result:
188.4 miles in 3h35. Making an overall door to door average speed of 52.6mph (which is respectable for mixed UK roads)
56kWh usable battery (to the decimal point which is interesting)
297 wH/mi average.
(Nearly a burst bladder )
And as it's the Internet, and there is no proof without photos:
I did some video commentary of the test, and will post them up on Youtube after I've edited them together.
That's pretty much no degradation if you were able to pull 56kwh out of a 60kwh car.
Yep it's encouraging I've got no degradation (and as you say 56kWh seems pretty darn good). The actual range is plenty too.
It's the calc being so off that is more annoying. It has all sorts of subtle side effects, the sat nav is nigh on pointless, as the range assurance stuff just gets completely confused and sends you on wild goose chases to Superchargers when not needed. You can't rely on the miles added charging either (though less of an issue as I can do some mental arithmetic to correct the pessimistic ratings.)
The car is currently sat charging back to 90%, I will see if the calc has gone back to the levels it had when I first got the car, or if this is a UK 60 foible introduced with v6.0
I had a similar (but not as acute) situation on my 2014 S60 with about the same mileage. Full charge went from 209 (initial pick-up) to 188. They did a battery analysis and said everything was fine, but that if I did a full charge about once a week or so it would give the software a better dataset on which to do the calculation. Sure enough a couple months later and after a half-dozen full charges, it's back up in the high 190s.
I also noticed with the cool temps (cool for Southern CA anyway) I've been getting great efficiency. Driving 80mph on the freeway and still just under 300 Wh/mi.
My S60 (vin 38xxx with 30,000 miles on it) is at 168 at 90%
My wifes S60 (vin 08xxx with 38,000 miles on it) is at 182 at 90%
It seems like the 60's are all over the place.
Weird. Do they have the same pack letter. Mine (VIN 37xxx) is a "B"
I have a 2013 S40 with 32k miles. I tried a similar test, charging to the maximum allowed and then driving out and back (trying to hit 300Wh/mi) until the car hit zero miles rated range. I start out with 130 miles rated each day, and obviously have never been able to 100% charge or supercharge. I believe the limit is 72%. With 1 mile remaining, I had consumed 36.2kWh over 119.8 miles at 302Wh/mi. I have no idea how to interpret that, since 72% of 60kWh is 43.2kWh, and there is a buffer at the top and the bottom of the battery charge range (minus any deg).
Also note the hilariously wrong album art...
I concur with the others.. If you were able to pull 56kwh out of your battery, then you have essentially zero degradation. You can't get the nameplate 60kwh out of your battery, and 56kwh is about exactly what I was able to get out of my car when it was new. The concern about the low range calculation is indeed just a calculation error. Drive happy!