It is actually spelled Battmobile. Did some checking and they are now called Element 3 Batteries. A previous poster had posted about this same battery. I didn't know there was name change.
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It is actually spelled Battmobile. Did some checking and they are now called Element 3 Batteries. A previous poster had posted about this same battery. I didn't know there was name change.
Xenoilphobe
Well-Known Member
A lot of ICE cars now come with similarly unmanaged Li-ion batteries for their 12V. My last car, a 2015 BMW M3, had one and it was not temperature controlled.
beeeerock
Active Member
Maybe a dumb question... but can the battery swap be done like in an ICE? That is, disconnect, remove, replace, reconnect? Or is there a requirement to maintain 12 volts to the car at all times? I recall having to re-enter security codes into the stereo units...
Mine took forever to boot this morning and the center screen didn't come to life on its own...I did the steering wheel button reboot and eventually it came to life also. I'm not scheduled for service for two weeks and I need to drive several hours to get there. Failure is not an option... I'm getting nervous that my battery is failing faster than they might have expected.
Mine took forever to boot this morning and the center screen didn't come to life on its own...I did the steering wheel button reboot and eventually it came to life also. I'm not scheduled for service for two weeks and I need to drive several hours to get there. Failure is not an option... I'm getting nervous that my battery is failing faster than they might have expected.
FlyF4
Son of a MX
FlyF4
Son of a MX
yea, the battery and installation is fully covered under warranty. If out of warranty, the price can vary a lot, but the aver will be between $150 and $250. It takes about an hour because there are a lot of buttons that need to be removed in the Frunk to take out the tray and access the battery. Better have Tesla do it as sometimes the car has to be told what kind of battery you have so the charging system will know how to handle it.
Xenoilphobe
Well-Known Member
I just replaced my 12 volt battery in my 2013 P85 with the element 3 LiFePO4 battery. It was definitely not easy in the early generation cars... took about 3 hours, but that includes time to go hunting for bolts dropped. The price Tesla wanted for their OEM replacement was around $220, which is much higher than the prices quoted just a couple of months ago in this thread.
My 12 volt was replaced under warranty in August 2014 due to a traction battery failure... the contactor failure common to all early packs. Anyways, once the traction battery goes, they replace the 12 volt since it then deep cycles and I didn’t have a deep cycle battery until the replacement. That battery lasted for 3.5 years. The car is kept in a garage, so I am not as worried about the LiFePO4 battery as it normally won’t be subject to freezing temps.
My 12 volt was replaced under warranty in August 2014 due to a traction battery failure... the contactor failure common to all early packs. Anyways, once the traction battery goes, they replace the 12 volt since it then deep cycles and I didn’t have a deep cycle battery until the replacement. That battery lasted for 3.5 years. The car is kept in a garage, so I am not as worried about the LiFePO4 battery as it normally won’t be subject to freezing temps.
why would you spend over $400 to replace it yourself when tesla SC will do it for you at half the cost?
not trying to be an ass.. genuinely curious
My Model S is out of warranty and I would be on the hook for all 12 volt replacement costs. I'm thinking the price for the 12 volt replacement isn't going to get any cheaper and I expect much longer life span with the LiFePO4 replacement. I also expect that, with additional Tesla's in the household, this particular vehicle is not going to be charged as often which is going to stress the battery more than it has been in the past. Therefore, if I can avoid one replacement, I'm ahead.
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Xenoilphobe
Well-Known Member
make sure the switch the charging firmware from lead acid to LiFeP04, there is no cost from them to do this.. just has a different charging cycle. When my lead acid 12 volt failed I just shipped the new LiFeP04 battery to the SC and they installed it for free (I was still under warranty).
I reached out to them and asked about here near Green Bay and at first got the the salesman speak about "we ship them everywhere and never a complaint".
When I called that out as a non-answer I got a little more of an answer but felt like they just wanted to make the sale, suggesting the min pack warming and such would stop the 12volt from actually getting to all that cold and that the cold would shorten the life "just like any other battery". Which is an argument I can see for some areas or other areas that might might see an occasional dip to the high 20s. The drain and recharge alone will generate some warmth, I know I did some reading on lithium powersports batteries and they recommend turning on the headlights for a little before cranking because it warms the battery. Well the car has some constant drain. I couldn't really guess ow much heat is generated certainly not much
For me though we will see -15f almost every year -25f is possible and we can have weeks that barely get up into the single digits positive, yet they still wanted to sell me one, not sure if they wanted a guinea pig or what.
It took 2 weeks to actually get thru to scheduling but I finally got a Ranger scheduled and the initial quote is only $210 on my pre-refresh RWD car with $150 of that being the battery and me being hours from Ranger base camp, so long as they show up on time and the quote doesn't vary substantially I will be happy with another lead acid, and from the service history they seem to think it is original at 4yo 76k miles.
When I called that out as a non-answer I got a little more of an answer but felt like they just wanted to make the sale, suggesting the min pack warming and such would stop the 12volt from actually getting to all that cold and that the cold would shorten the life "just like any other battery". Which is an argument I can see for some areas or other areas that might might see an occasional dip to the high 20s. The drain and recharge alone will generate some warmth, I know I did some reading on lithium powersports batteries and they recommend turning on the headlights for a little before cranking because it warms the battery. Well the car has some constant drain. I couldn't really guess ow much heat is generated certainly not much
For me though we will see -15f almost every year -25f is possible and we can have weeks that barely get up into the single digits positive, yet they still wanted to sell me one, not sure if they wanted a guinea pig or what.
It took 2 weeks to actually get thru to scheduling but I finally got a Ranger scheduled and the initial quote is only $210 on my pre-refresh RWD car with $150 of that being the battery and me being hours from Ranger base camp, so long as they show up on time and the quote doesn't vary substantially I will be happy with another lead acid, and from the service history they seem to think it is original at 4yo 76k miles.
Been a while since anyone posted in this thread, but I just went through replacing the 12V battery in my early refresh S. A few comments...
I don't know who Element 3 are, it appears they are just reselling the Battmobile battery, which is now Ohmmu.
https://www.ohmmu.com/
There is a selection in the Security menu to shut down the car. It's recommended you do that before changing the battery. I didn't do that the first time and the message that the 12V battery needed replacing didn't clear. When I shut down the car, removed one of the terminals, let it sit for a few minutes and then hooked everything back up, the message cleared.
Changing the battery is not all that tough, it varies from one version to another, but on the refresh S there are 3 plastic pieces that need to be moved or removed. The first is the shield over the frunk equipment which is held on with Velcro. Then there is another large plastic piece that is connected to the HEPA filter just behind the frunk that extends up near the windshield. that requires a standard screw driver to pop out some plastic holders at the top and a couple of snaps at the bottom you have to pull out while lifting up that you have to do by braille. That was the toughest part.
There are a couple of drain hoses on the second panel. I just pulled the middle panel out of the way so it was standing vertically. That way I didn't need to remove the drain hoses which are just press fit on there, but are a pain to get off.
Finally move the duct running from the HEPA filter to the cabin. It's just press fit on there.
That exposes the battery, which is held in by a few nuts, but the bottom nut is blocked by the HEPA filter. To get the battery out, you have to either remove the HEPA filter, or bend the bracket. I bent the bracket.
My car is still under warranty (mid-2016 with 20K miles), but the 12V was not under warranty. It took me about 1/2 hour to get to the battery the first time. The second time to remove the terminal and reset the battery took about 10 minutes.
The Ohmmu (formerly Battmobile) battery is more expensive, but they advertise 4X the life over the lead-acid battery Tesla provides. Finding the lead acid type of battery in the AWD Ss is near impossible. I looked everywhere and could only find references to it. The Ohmmu replacement has circuitry to behave to the charging system like any of the lead acid batteries so the car doesn't know there is a different type of battery in there.
I don't know who Element 3 are, it appears they are just reselling the Battmobile battery, which is now Ohmmu.
https://www.ohmmu.com/
There is a selection in the Security menu to shut down the car. It's recommended you do that before changing the battery. I didn't do that the first time and the message that the 12V battery needed replacing didn't clear. When I shut down the car, removed one of the terminals, let it sit for a few minutes and then hooked everything back up, the message cleared.
Changing the battery is not all that tough, it varies from one version to another, but on the refresh S there are 3 plastic pieces that need to be moved or removed. The first is the shield over the frunk equipment which is held on with Velcro. Then there is another large plastic piece that is connected to the HEPA filter just behind the frunk that extends up near the windshield. that requires a standard screw driver to pop out some plastic holders at the top and a couple of snaps at the bottom you have to pull out while lifting up that you have to do by braille. That was the toughest part.
There are a couple of drain hoses on the second panel. I just pulled the middle panel out of the way so it was standing vertically. That way I didn't need to remove the drain hoses which are just press fit on there, but are a pain to get off.
Finally move the duct running from the HEPA filter to the cabin. It's just press fit on there.
That exposes the battery, which is held in by a few nuts, but the bottom nut is blocked by the HEPA filter. To get the battery out, you have to either remove the HEPA filter, or bend the bracket. I bent the bracket.
My car is still under warranty (mid-2016 with 20K miles), but the 12V was not under warranty. It took me about 1/2 hour to get to the battery the first time. The second time to remove the terminal and reset the battery took about 10 minutes.
The Ohmmu (formerly Battmobile) battery is more expensive, but they advertise 4X the life over the lead-acid battery Tesla provides. Finding the lead acid type of battery in the AWD Ss is near impossible. I looked everywhere and could only find references to it. The Ohmmu replacement has circuitry to behave to the charging system like any of the lead acid batteries so the car doesn't know there is a different type of battery in there.
I would be concerned about the warranty with the lithium 12volt with the constant company name changes.
We all know lithium should not be charged below freezing, well right now it is 0F at my place. The salesman selling the lithium battery assured me it would be fine here but offered no reasoning. Just "it won't get that cold" "proximity to main pack will keep it warm" " it won't shorten life that much" .
Seemed very much salesmanship over making a knowledgeable statement.
If I lived in FL I might have gone that route, but I live in Wisconsin.
Just consider what we know about lithiums needing to be heated to charge in cold climates before jumping on this bandwagon.
We all know lithium should not be charged below freezing, well right now it is 0F at my place. The salesman selling the lithium battery assured me it would be fine here but offered no reasoning. Just "it won't get that cold" "proximity to main pack will keep it warm" " it won't shorten life that much" .
Seemed very much salesmanship over making a knowledgeable statement.
If I lived in FL I might have gone that route, but I live in Wisconsin.
Just consider what we know about lithiums needing to be heated to charge in cold climates before jumping on this bandwagon.
Xenoilphobe
Well-Known Member
A thermistor, which is part of the battery management system (BMS), prevents the battery from charging until a pre-set temperature is reached, as these batteries are managed, unlike lead acid batteries, which lose the majority of their power once the temps get low. Also these batteries come with a 4 years full-replacement warranty, not pro-rated like every lead acid battery company. This has been the same through the 3 name changes Batt Mobile, Element3 and now OHMMU.
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