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120 KWh batter in 2014?

Discussion in 'Battery Discussion' started by adiggs, Dec 12, 2012.

  1. adiggs

    adiggs Active Member

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    Sure wish this article was better sourced - this article (link below) on The Motley Fool includes a claim of 120 KWh batteries coming our way in 2014. Seems like a nice option to bring along with Model X (AWD, performance, 120 KWh battery pack - my fantasy Model X options are starting to sound expense :biggrin:). And of course, then also retrofit and make available on S's.


    http://beta.fool.com/piyusharora/2012/12/12/stock-screaming-buy/18441/?logvisit=y&published=2012-12-12&source=eptcnnlnk0000001


    Has anybody seen this discussed anywhere else?
     
  2. richkae

    richkae VIN587

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    #2 richkae, Dec 12, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2012
    The content of the rest of the article is so weak I would put absolutely zero faith in the 120 kWh battery claim.
     
  3. adiggs

    adiggs Active Member

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    Sadly that was my reaction as well, but somebody willing to put that in print still got me thinking.
     
  4. herbvdh

    herbvdh Member

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    I have started to reverse engineer the battery tray size roughly and how many batteries you can fit in there. I came up with approximately 11,000 batteries max. Either you have some mighty powerful cells available or we have a new battery technology coming. I have done a lot of battery work in my career but not with Lithium.
     
  5. dadaleus

    dadaleus 4GETOIL P85#S70,FdrX,S85D

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    I would REALLY like the option for a >85kwh battery in the Model X. It will be our long distance driving car. A frequent trip for us is a drive to a particular spot in the mountains that almost fully drains our Model S 85kwh battery in standard mode, and the X will have a smaller range with the same battery. No super charger on the way and probably won't be anytime soon since it's not a major route.
     
  6. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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    This. Honestly, I'd pay more for a bigger pack in my current S. As I was discussing with someone today, I underestimated how many miles I drive and over estimated how much ACTUAL range I could get out of the pack (without driving 55 with no heat). With that 30% increase in range, I could get closer to 300 actual miles per charge.

    I think putting a 120kwh pack in the X might mean the same amount of range I see in the S currently though :(
     
  7. sublimaze1

    sublimaze1 8Dec2012 / Leeroy Jenkins

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    I tend to agree. I read this and, honestly, with as much time I waste - er, uh - spend on this forum, I could have written all the rest of the information and thrown the 120 in as a Santa dream.
     
  8. Local host

    Local host Member

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    I am really hoping that this will be the case with the model X. The question is if they will drop the 60 kwh battery and offer the 120 and 85 at the 85 and 60 price points or if they will offer a 120, 85 and 60 kwh options...
     
  9. Raffy.Roma

    Raffy.Roma Active Member

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    The article says that Tesla stated that 120 KWh batteries will be available in 2014. I would like it were confirmed from Tesla. But from the above comments it looks like that there is no confirmation from Tesla. Right?
     
  10. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    #10 stopcrazypp, Dec 15, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2012
    AFAIK, the largest battery Tesla ever announced is 85 kWh (for both Model S and Model X). The Model X will only have two options: 60 kWh and 85 kWh. If they ever officially announced something bigger, I'm sure there would be a thread dedicated to it here.

    On the other hand, the next-gen version of the 3100mAh cells the 85kWh pack uses is already out in the market. It's called the NCR18650B (vs the NCAR18650A in the Model S) and is 3400mAh. That means 1.097x the battery size with no change in volume and nearly no change in weight. That means a 93kWh battery is possible today, although ten months ago I predicted it being in a car on 2014 at the earliest, given the 2 year lag the previous batteries took.

    We had a similar thread on this topic here:
    http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/7556-Probability-of-new-battery-tech-before-Model-X-goes-into-production?p=111988&viewfull=1#post111988
     
  11. sublimaze1

    sublimaze1 8Dec2012 / Leeroy Jenkins

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    What we can be sure of, is that if Elon et al is strategizing a 93, 125, or whatever KWh pack ... until it is finished, nobody will know as it is this kind of proprietary work and secrecy that must be maintained in order to keep Tesla flowing forward.

    Now, I am not saying that AsiaTech123Specialties.com (for example) isn't also working on non-OEM batteries concurrently (which actually might not be a bad thing), just that Tesla has been ultra tight lipped about battery technology from the start.
     
  12. herbvdh

    herbvdh Member

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    The additional weight of the batteries to make 120 Kwh pack may vey well be less than 400 miles. We may very well negate the effects of the extra batteries. The weight could also effect the 0-60 time etc.
     
  13. Oyvind.H

    Oyvind.H Member

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    Pros:
    - Quicker supercharging (or at least the charger will be able to stay at 90kWh longer
    - More power can be drawed from the batteries=better performance
    - More range

    Cons
    - Higher price
    - More weight (probably)
     
  14. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    You can't be sure of the first two, because the higher energy density cells might have lower power density.

    They are also still very expensive compared to the last generation in the same numbers Panasonic NCR18650B 3400mah Batteries (Box of 180)


    [​IMG]
     
  15. Oyvind.H

    Oyvind.H Member

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    Sorry, should have specified that my assumptions were based on the ability to squeeze more of the current cell type into the car, not using new versions of currenc chemistry/new chemistry.
     
  16. aronth5

    aronth5 Long Time Follower

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    Interesting. Well at least the 18650B's shows a price decrease from $1,995 per box of 180 to $1,795 per box.
    Panasonic battery cost.JPG
     
  17. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    From the same website, the retail cost for NCR18650B is $1995 for 180, discounted to $1795. The NCR18650A is $1595 for 180. So even for the discount price, the cost is 1.125x the cells in the Model S. Given the new cells are 1.097x the capacity, the price is higher for the new cells on a per kWh basis. I suspect in two years though, they will be made in larger numbers and the per kWh pricing will be cheaper (esp. with the bulk buy Tesla will get).
     

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