$12K for FSD is insane

[raptor5244]

Does anyone else actually prefer driving the car themselves? I am not knocking the tech but I actually enjoy driving a car, ever since I was a teenager. I actually get annoyed when I have to be a passenger as I find it boring. Even if my Tesla could drive itself perfectly I would still prefer to drive unless I was crawling along in bumper to bumper traffic, which the included basic AP does for me now during those highway backups.

If I truly wanted a vehicle that could 100% drive itself I think I would save the $60k (45k + 12k FSD + 1,200 delivery + tax) on the least expensive Tesla and just call an Uber.

 

[Sporty]

Does anyone else actually prefer driving the car themselves? I am not knocking the tech but I actually enjoy driving a car, ever since I was a teenager. I actually get annoyed when I have to be a passenger as I find it boring. Even if my Tesla could drive itself perfectly I would still prefer to drive unless I was crawling along in bumper to bumper traffic, which the included basic AP does for me now during those highway backups.

If I truly wanted a vehicle that could 100% drive itself I think I would save the $60k (45k + 12k FSD + 1,200 delivery + tax) on the least expensive Tesla and just call an Uber.

I mostly enjoy driving. I really only want fsd for occasional use. Grid lock. When I need to clean my glasses. Changing the radio. Times where I’m tired (which clearly the current fsd is not for).

Its price point feels like it’s more for the long haul driver that wants/can to use it all the time. With the current pandemic situation my driving miles are 0 many days a week. I don’t have the opportunities to get much value out of fsd (even if it worked). I turn it on because I’m curious if it’s any better then before.

 

[raptor5244]

I really don't need FSD. I would love to get the ability for auto lane change, that's the biggest draw for me but not at $10k or even $12k.

I cannot wait until other manufacturers who came up with something better and offer it for much below what Tesla is doing.

Elon's logic on how FSD is so valuable is simply flawed at the point in time. Demanding more money is really showing his arrogance. It would be one thing if he simply gives FSD to anyone who pays, but you have to rely on his SUPER AWFUL algorithm to determine your safety score before you get it.

And people, please do NOT sign up for Tesla's insurance tracking because if it's the same extremely stupid algorithm, you should expect big brother to charge you with no recourse.

I am convinced there are essentially three type of FSD buyers.

1. People who have no idea what they are buying but just get it anyway. Either the cost doesn't matter or they just buy into the hype. These folks don't really care if FSD works or not and probably never use any of the current features anyway.

2. People who realize FSD is a work in progress but buy it anyway to just be a part of the development effort. These folks enjoy beta testing and providing feedback to improve the product. They are fans of Tesla, Elon and want to be a part of the autonomous driving effort. They justify the cost because they feel that being part of the advancement of the technology brings them enough enjoyment like any other hobby, so it doesn't really matter if the car full self drives or not. It is the journey for them.

3. People who bought FSD and fully expected Tesla to deliver a full self driving experience in a timely fashion, regardless of what it says in the fine print. These people are pissed off. They feel they paid $5k, $7k, $10k and soon $12k but don't necessarily understand how software development cycles work, or care, which makes sense because this concept is new to the auto industry. They are also baffled that they can't transfer their FSD package to a new Tesla if they want to trade-in their vehicle. They are pissed even more when they learn that the FSD package has such a low residual value at trade-in. Then, they learn that Tesla offers FSD as a subscription now so you can drop $200 and test it for a month, figure out it is not worth it and cancel saving them $11,800.

 

[raptor5244]

I mostly enjoy driving. I really only want fsd for occasional use. Grid lock. When I need to clean my glasses. Changing the radio. Times where I’m tired (which clearly the current fsd is not for).

Its price point feels like it’s more for the long haul driver that wants/can to use it all the time. With the current pandemic situation my driving miles are 0 many days a week. I don’t have the opportunities to get much value out of fsd (even if it worked). I turn it on because I’m curious if it’s any better then before.

Same here. I view it more as a drivers aid for certain situations. I think if other manufacturers include just a handful of these AI features that would be enough for most drivers.

 

[darknavi]

I didn't read the rest of this thread, but here is one reason why Tesla can charge what ever they want:

Lack of competition.

If there was another car with the same level of driving software out there they could EASILY undercut Tesla, but there isn't right now. There is no other package that a normal consumer can just go out and buy right now that comes anywhere close to FSD Beta 10. People can argue all day, every day if there is "value" in buying this expensive ass toy, but at the end of the day people like new toys. We desperately need competition in this space on the consumer facing side if we ever want these prices to go down.

 

[phantom701]

Of these features in FSD, they used to be available as Enhanced Auto Pilot in USA and might still be available as so outside the USA. The ones that people like are:

• Navigate on Autopilot
• Auto Lane Change [Many manufacturers (including ICE players) are offering this. And many of us actually just want this.]
• Autopark [Not working well in Tesla, my BMW can do it in one fluid motion]
• Summon [Gimmick]
• Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control

Select BETA

• Autosteer on city streets - Yikes, you could get your car damaged. Just watch videos online.

 

[goin2drt]

I am convinced there are essentially three type of FSD buyers.

1. People who have no idea what they are buying but just get it anyway. Either the cost doesn't matter or they just buy into the hype. These folks don't really care if FSD works or not and probably never use any of the current features anyway.

2. People who realize FSD is a work in progress but buy it anyway to just be a part of the development effort. These folks enjoy beta testing and providing feedback to improve the product. They are fans of Tesla, Elon and want to be a part of the autonomous driving effort. They justify the cost because they feel that being part of the advancement of the technology brings them enough enjoyment like any other hobby, so it doesn't really matter if the car full self drives or not. It is the journey for them.

3. People who bought FSD and fully expected Tesla to deliver a full self driving experience in a timely fashion, regardless of what it says in the fine print. These people are pissed off. They feel they paid $5k, $7k, $10k and soon $12k but don't necessarily understand how software development cycles work, or care, which makes sense because this concept is new to the auto industry. They are also baffled that they can't transfer their FSD package to a new Tesla if they want to trade-in their vehicle. They are pissed even more when they learn that the FSD package has such a low residual value at trade-in. Then, they learn that Tesla offers FSD as a subscription now so you can drop $200 and test it for a month, figure out it is not worth it and cancel saving them $11,800.

I am 4. People that don't buy it and see it as a waste of money. 1) It is only beta and actually a product that is not fully baked and may not ever be. 2) Have to drive your car like a grandma to get the honor to be selected to use FSD EVEN THOUGH you paid for it and 2a) do not want to drive the car like that as per ordering a "P". 4) The FSD stays with the car not the owner and we do not keep cars long enough even if we love the Tesla the car will be completely different in 4 years so we would buy the next one. 5) It is over priced at $10K much les $12K even if the FSD worked perfectly and was given to everybody.

 

[roc-noc]

Does anyone else actually prefer driving the car themselves? I am not knocking the tech but I actually enjoy driving a car, ever since I was a teenager. I actually get annoyed when I have to be a passenger as I find it boring. Even if my Tesla could drive itself perfectly I would still prefer to drive unless I was crawling along in bumper to bumper traffic, which the included basic AP does for me now during those highway backups.

If I truly wanted a vehicle that could 100% drive itself I think I would save the $60k (45k + 12k FSD + 1,200 delivery + tax) on the least expensive Tesla and just call an Uber.

I love driving and my Model S is the best driving car that I have ever owned but.... I love to drive fast and I hate speeding tickets. Autopilot and my Insurance app keep my driving throttled. I find that using cruise control or autopilot set to about 12% over the speed limit keeps me sane and keeps my insurance costs reasonable.

Just before my Telsa was delivered, I picked up a 15mph over the limit ticket driving my Mini Cooper S with manual shift. It is a blast to drive and very difficult to drive slow. And the officer said to me right after I pulled over, "you must have been doing 90mph before I clocked you at 60mph". No way, I was going to get a warning on that one and truth was I was only doing 60mph or less but was moving around some trucks and moving across 3 lanes towards the officer right in front of the radar trap. First ticket in 10 years. Now on 6 months probation. The Mini is back in storage.

I'll probably drive with less Autopilot after my 6 months is up. I don't see much use for FSD based on my driving area and distances. I'll probably rent it if I take any long road trips. I could see a use for an autotaxi mode if it was ready for full control.

BTW My insurance app loves my driving. Rating is 100% so far after 30 days. I might try the Tesla insurance next. Still waiting for my safety rating from Tesla.

 

[t3sl4drvr]

Finally pulled the plug on FSD purchase after 6 months. Elon tweet about price increase pushed me. I've liked the features available and how it worked 3 months ago when I had a one month subscription. Stopping at signals was very nice. Stop sign creeping not so much. Auto park worked at times but I can live without it. Summon is mostly disgraceful. Auto lane change, I agree with most people should be included in autopilot but I guess number of people buying FSD would be very tiny if that were the case.

You might still be within the 48h return period. If you are, use it - you will regret later otherwise.

 

[Sporty]

I am convinced there are essentially three type of FSD buyers.

1. People who have no idea what they are buying but just get it anyway. Either the cost doesn't matter or they just buy into the hype. These folks don't really care if FSD works or not and probably never use any of the current features anyway.

2. People who realize FSD is a work in progress but buy it anyway to just be a part of the development effort. These folks enjoy beta testing and providing feedback to improve the product. They are fans of Tesla, Elon and want to be a part of the autonomous driving effort. They justify the cost because they feel that being part of the advancement of the technology brings them enough enjoyment like any other hobby, so it doesn't really matter if the car full self drives or not. It is the journey for them.

3. People who bought FSD and fully expected Tesla to deliver a full self driving experience in a timely fashion, regardless of what it says in the fine print. These people are pissed off. They feel they paid $5k, $7k, $10k and soon $12k but don't necessarily understand how software development cycles work, or care, which makes sense because this concept is new to the auto industry. They are also baffled that they can't transfer their FSD package to a new Tesla if they want to trade-in their vehicle. They are pissed even more when they learn that the FSD package has such a low residual value at trade-in. Then, they learn that Tesla offers FSD as a subscription now so you can drop $200 and test it for a month, figure out it is not worth it and cancel saving them $11,800.

I agree. I think there are a lot people in #1. Buying a car and don’t want to not get the latest features. It can be financed as well. Do they even tell people at purchase time it can be renewed or purchased later?

I’m #2. But the progress over 4 years is disappointing as a ‘I want to be part of the development effort’. That coupled with bugs that never get unaddressed, regressions, and now I’ve just been there understand what it is and am (I guess) a little smarter.

If I were to buy it again, right now before its more generally useful, would be for me some sort of other category. Like “4. I know it’s not worth it but I don’t care”. ?

I do know when I have the car without fsd I’m going to get asked numerous times “how’s fsd” and I’m pretty sure my response is going the “owned it before, it has a lot a problems, don’t listen to the hype”. I like Tesla but what else could the answer be?

I wasn’t a fan of the idea of letting owners move fsd to their next car (as a business decision/practice), but from a pr decision maybe they consider doing something. A use once an early adopter discount ? Problem here is the waited too long.

 

[Dunsel]

Based on the various assessments I have seen by users on the released features, including in this thread, the features are not ready for prime time.

The features aren’t available anywhere else.

If you don’t want to be an early adopter, don’t get it. But if you want to try this new technology, what are your options? If you get something new and innovative, don’t expect the level of refinement in a mature, long-used product.

 

[Huntfortelsa]

You might still be within the 48h return period. If you are, use it - you will regret later otherwise.

I agree that's good to know. Haven't been on the highway yet. Haven't used NOA. I still get a kick with the stop at red lights and auto lane change in city driving. I feel like that's enough incentive for me to keep the package. Signed up for early access beta and I stand at 99 right now, but I think I may just opt out of that for now. I don't need to be beta tester. The features on there are enough for me to give that money to Tesla.

 

[Huntfortelsa]

Last month I was thinking of returning my modelY and getting another car because the car headrests were killing me. I went out and tried multiple cars which had active lane control and tacc. None of them matched how easy it was in Tesla to operate those. I was able to figure out how to pull the headrests off in Y and reverse them. Now the seats are comfortable. No other car comes close in terms of technology. I agree that FSD might lose value with some competetion and I sincerely hope that happens. But right now, no other automaker has anything close to FSD. My 2 cents.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Where's the 'similar features for less'? Most aren't even as good as basic autopilot which comes free, let alone the stuff FSD is looking to do.

Rivian has adaptive cruise control, hands free lane steering, and autolane change as standard in their R1S, and R1T.

They don't make any promises beyond those basic features. But, those basic features already cover the functionality that it costs me $8K to get with EAP+FSD.

I'm totally okay with giving up unconfirmed lane changes (it never really worked well), and I'm also okay with accepting less curvature allowance during autolane keeping.

What I'm not okay with is if it comes with the level of phantom braking that Tesla Vision has.

It remains to be seen how good it is, but I'd absolutely give up features for more consistency with basic capabilities.

I also have no issues giving up autopark for 360 degree downfacing cameras.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Does anyone else actually prefer driving the car themselves? I am not knocking the tech but I actually enjoy driving a car, ever since I was a teenager. I actually get annoyed when I have to be a passenger as I find it boring. Even if my Tesla could drive itself perfectly I would still prefer to drive unless I was crawling along in bumper to bumper traffic, which the included basic AP does for me now during those highway backups.

If I truly wanted a vehicle that could 100% drive itself I think I would save the $60k (45k + 12k FSD + 1,200 delivery + tax) on the least expensive Tesla and just call an Uber.

I hate TACC/AP/NOA/SUMMON/AUTOPARK/FSDBETA so much that I actually have to drive the car manually to realize I actually really like the car.

A Model 3 Performance is a spectacular car with a few mild annoying things like no proper blind spot monitoring, and I don't like the turn signals mechanism.

Would I drive manually to work, and back if FSD worked really well? Probably not.

The issue is where I live there is no such thing as actually driving anymore. You pull out into the residential street, and almost immediately you're behind someone else. Basically all that happens is you go from a small train to a slightly longer train, and then onto a really long train. Where stop lights break up the train.

There is no actual driving involved except when someone does something stupid. In fact people being dumb is about the only interesting thing that happens the entire drive to work.

I would certainly drive on a trip when the driving got interesting. Those rare moments no one is in front of you, and corners are to be eaten.

 

[Bladerskb]

I didn't read the rest of this thread, but here is one reason why Tesla can charge what ever they want:

Lack of competition.

If there was another car with the same level of driving software out there they could EASILY undercut Tesla, but there isn't right now. There is no other package that a normal consumer can just go out and buy right now that comes anywhere close to FSD Beta 10. People can argue all day, every day if there is "value" in buying this expensive ass toy, but at the end of the day people like new toys. We desperately need competition in this space on the consumer facing side if we ever want these prices to go down.

There are multiple but its just not in the US.

 

[raptor5244]

I am 4. People that don't buy it and see it as a waste of money. 1) It is only beta and actually a product that is not fully baked and may not ever be. 2) Have to drive your car like a grandma to get the honor to be selected to use FSD EVEN THOUGH you paid for it and 2a) do not want to drive the car like that as per ordering a "P". 4) The FSD stays with the car not the owner and we do not keep cars long enough even if we love the Tesla the car will be completely different in 4 years so we would buy the next one. 5) It is over priced at $10K much les $12K even if the FSD worked perfectly and was given to everybody.

Yeah, I am 4 as well but if it was like $1000 I probably would buy it just to test it. I am still baffled that people keep paying this much money for this software.

 

[Knightshade]

Does anyone else actually prefer driving the car themselves?

On the tail of the dragon? Sure.

On the 99% of real life driving that is sitting in traffic or just boring interstate driving? Much less so.

Most "normal" driving is boring as hell

[*]Auto Lane Change [Many manufacturers (including ICE players) are offering this. And many of us actually just want this.

Which ones?

Rivian has adaptive cruise control, hands free lane steering, and autolane change as standard in their R1S, and R1T.

Got anybody that has produced more than like 1000 vehicles in the existence of the company?

(I kid- but not by much.... also haven't seen any actual real world testing of their system, but would be curious to see it if you've got a link)

 

[qdeathstar]

People that anthropomorphize their cars creep me the fugg out.

Don’t worry, Tesla’s don’t have a tail pipe….

 

[qdeathstar]

Of these features in FSD, they used to be available as Enhanced Auto Pilot in USA and might still be available as so outside the USA. The ones that people like are:

• Navigate on Autopilot
• Auto Lane Change [Many manufacturers (including ICE players) are offering this. And many of us actually just want this.]
• Autopark [Not working well in Tesla, my BMW can do it in one fluid motion]
• Summon [Gimmick]
• Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control

Select BETA

• Autosteer on city streets - Yikes, you could get your car damaged. Just watch videos online.

Summon isn’t a gimmick, I use it all the time.