Ostrichsak
Well-Known Member
Your stance on the topic is an opinion. Mine is a statement of fact. From where I sit, I'm as "chill" as I can be because I didn't waste nearly $500 on snake oil.
I bet your windshield wipers work 15% better. lol
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
12v Battery Options - Which is best?
- Thread starter IchDochNicht
- Start date
I bet your windshield wipers work 15% better. lol
BTW: You are right the one that lasted only one year may be an outlier... But I am also interested in working/trying newer technologies...
BTWII: It's my money, so I can waste it where I see fit... If it lasts 3-4 years I'll be at the same cost, with less aggravation changing batteries.
BTWIII: I got Math... LOL
BTWII: It's my money, so I can waste it where I see fit... If it lasts 3-4 years I'll be at the same cost, with less aggravation changing batteries.
BTWIII: I got Math... LOL
Ostrichsak
Well-Known Member
We're in agreement there. You can light your money on fire if you want because it's your money. Just don't come on here trying to convince us all that it's the most effective way to keep warm which is what all of these Ohmmu evangelists are doing.
How is it your math is not even close to accurate based on your OWN numbers and then you punctuate your statement that your math is accurate as if you just stuck the dismount?
If your $420 (plus tax shipping) battery lasts 3-4 years that's most likely the exact same amount of time your OME battery would have lasted and it costs only $140. Tell me how that's the same cost. It's literally 3x more for the same service life. This couldn't be any more obvious.
Acting like you're somehow advancing "newer tech" is just silly. Lithium is nothing new and it's been around for quite some time now. In fact, the only reason we still use Lead Acid and AGM (which is just a form of lead acid, BTW) like in the OEM Tesla battery is because they're FAR more stable in the wider temperature swings seen in normal operation in North America. Lithium is NOT the right choice unless you're able to keep the cells in a very specific temperature range which is why the HV packs on these cars have such advanced thermal management systems and the cars are worthless if it goes down.
Remind me again, what specifically is the thermal management system in your Ohmmu lithium cell 12v battery?
Thanks, everybody, for the insight you provided! I really appreciate it - regardless of which side of the fence you're on.
Based on what was said, I have definitely ruled out the Ohmmu battery. I was skeptical before, but now it's clear that I'm not going to spend the extra money.
So, it's between calling mobile service and the Gruber battery. The latter could take a week to get here,
One thing I had not considered was warranty. My car is past the 4-year warranty, even though I only have 42k miles on the odometer. I'm not sure, if and how warranty may play into my situation.
Is there any data on the minimum of how long the old battery lasts, once the warning comes-up? I saw the message first on Friday, February 12. It has been sitting since. As stated, the car is used once or maybe twice a week for getting groceries or running errands (no commute).
Based on what was said, I have definitely ruled out the Ohmmu battery. I was skeptical before, but now it's clear that I'm not going to spend the extra money.
So, it's between calling mobile service and the Gruber battery. The latter could take a week to get here,
One thing I had not considered was warranty. My car is past the 4-year warranty, even though I only have 42k miles on the odometer. I'm not sure, if and how warranty may play into my situation.
Is there any data on the minimum of how long the old battery lasts, once the warning comes-up? I saw the message first on Friday, February 12. It has been sitting since. As stated, the car is used once or maybe twice a week for getting groceries or running errands (no commute).
Last edited:
Ostrichsak
Well-Known Member
Why wait? Just because it could last several weeks once the warning pops up I sure wouldn't tempt fate.
I'm a DIY person and after reading some stories about issues after people changed their own batteries, I'm definitely just going to pay the price and let Tesla change mine, when the time comes. If you search you will find some of these stories.
Thats what I ended-up doing today. I had a little time and swung by the local service center. They had the battery in stock and took it in pretty quickly. The best of all: it cost less than $200!
I’m happy.
Thanks again for the guidance. Sometimes I find it hard to extract the right information from an endless thread. This was great help!
Reading the average croak time of Tesla batteries I paid the SC to replace mine at 4yo. I also keep a starter permanently plugged into the cigaretter lighter adapter along with tools to remove nosecone (MS classic) and terminals in trunk.
Keep in mind Tesla recently made a change that goes from killing batteries way faster than typical autos to making them last longer than typical autos.
If you take a brand new 12v lead acid battery and keep it topped off with a tender on a shelf, it will last for many years.
Using a battery tender, I've had batteries last for 12 years.
Until recently, the way Tesla used it's 12 volt battery was to run the vehicle systems with main HV contactors open. The system will draw 60 to 70 watts continuously from the 12v battery. Every 4 to 6 hours, the contactors will close and recharge the battery which has been drawn down 50%. It does so quite quickly at high amperage over several minutes and then the contactors open and the cycle starts all over again. This is murder on lead acid batteries.
With the MCU2 upgrade, the standby inverter is now active on any car made after March 2015 so that the contactors are engaged all of the time and the battery is constantly maintained at 100% SOC. Basically the vehicle systems now run off the main HV battery and those contactors only close for non typical situations.
Even without this, I'd still replace the battery with the standard OEM lead acid, but if you have a newer car with MCU2 or an older car after March 2015 with the MCU2 upgrade, your 12v lead acid should last much longer than regular ICE car unless you're comparing it to an ICE car that lives on a tender it's whole life.
If you take a brand new 12v lead acid battery and keep it topped off with a tender on a shelf, it will last for many years.
Using a battery tender, I've had batteries last for 12 years.
Until recently, the way Tesla used it's 12 volt battery was to run the vehicle systems with main HV contactors open. The system will draw 60 to 70 watts continuously from the 12v battery. Every 4 to 6 hours, the contactors will close and recharge the battery which has been drawn down 50%. It does so quite quickly at high amperage over several minutes and then the contactors open and the cycle starts all over again. This is murder on lead acid batteries.
With the MCU2 upgrade, the standby inverter is now active on any car made after March 2015 so that the contactors are engaged all of the time and the battery is constantly maintained at 100% SOC. Basically the vehicle systems now run off the main HV battery and those contactors only close for non typical situations.
Even without this, I'd still replace the battery with the standard OEM lead acid, but if you have a newer car with MCU2 or an older car after March 2015 with the MCU2 upgrade, your 12v lead acid should last much longer than regular ICE car unless you're comparing it to an ICE car that lives on a tender it's whole life.
ElectricLove
Member
Why did Tesla say they are now using 12V LFP in the new S and X? Along with “we should have been doing that long ago”... weird, they sure are dumb not understanding batteries as well as you do...
Ostrichsak
Well-Known Member
The same as ripping out your LEDs or HIDs and hot-gluing a bunch of laser pointers in their place would now give you better lighting performance at night because it's what Tesla does in the new cars because... ya know... lasers!
It cracks me up when people see ONE WORD and assume all else is equal. Much like when I talk to someone who says EVs are crap and their ONLY data is from a Leaf.
Lasers.
I've seen Ostrichsak post on this topic in other threads. He clearly has a bias against Ohmmu for some reason. From my experience, in 4 years I've had the OEM 12V battery replaced twice by Tesla, both times under warranty. That's an average of 2 years each (we'll see how long the 3rd one lasts). Now that my warranty has expired, when I have to replace the battery I'd seriously consider replacing with the Ohmmu unit. The main reason is warranty. Their website shows the warranty as:
"48 months from date of purchase 100% replacement coverage for performance failure of any sort. "
So they guarantee it will last at least 4 years. What's the warranty on the Tesla battery? I haven't been able to find it listed anywhere. But given reports by others having had to replace after 12 months I suspect it's only warranted for 90 days.
Regarding price, my friend has to replace his 12V battery and Tesla quoted him $275 installed. When I last had mine replaced under warranty I was quoted the same, though I didn't have to pay. So you could get lucky and the Tesla OEM may last you more than 2 years, but otherwise, the Ohmmu is more cost effective and will require fewer replacements.
Also keep in mind that the life of the battery depends on how often you drive your car. If you drive frequently the OEM battery will likely last longer since it will rarely require a deep cycle recharge. When your vehicle sits idle in the garage for long periods the 12V battery will run down before it automatically recharges. These long deep recharges are what deplete the battery life on Lead Acid Batteries. Lithium batteries are much better at this and are more likely to have a longer life for people who do not drive their car every day.
Ostrichsak is welcome to his opinion, but it's just that, his opinion.
"48 months from date of purchase 100% replacement coverage for performance failure of any sort. "
So they guarantee it will last at least 4 years. What's the warranty on the Tesla battery? I haven't been able to find it listed anywhere. But given reports by others having had to replace after 12 months I suspect it's only warranted for 90 days.
Regarding price, my friend has to replace his 12V battery and Tesla quoted him $275 installed. When I last had mine replaced under warranty I was quoted the same, though I didn't have to pay. So you could get lucky and the Tesla OEM may last you more than 2 years, but otherwise, the Ohmmu is more cost effective and will require fewer replacements.
Also keep in mind that the life of the battery depends on how often you drive your car. If you drive frequently the OEM battery will likely last longer since it will rarely require a deep cycle recharge. When your vehicle sits idle in the garage for long periods the 12V battery will run down before it automatically recharges. These long deep recharges are what deplete the battery life on Lead Acid Batteries. Lithium batteries are much better at this and are more likely to have a longer life for people who do not drive their car every day.
Ostrichsak is welcome to his opinion, but it's just that, his opinion.
Just (literally) had the 12V replaced. Ranger left 15mins ago. Orig battery from my late ‘14 P85D so can’t complain about longevity.
Got the warning msg on Saturday and was going to drive down to the SC to pick up a replacement assuming Ranger service avail was days out. Checked on the app and there was availability first thing this morning so I booked it. $50 labor for not having to pick up and R&R the battery myself is a no brainer.
I did pick the Ranger’s brain about why some cars need Toolbox after while others don’t. Apparently if the battery is not of the “Nano Carbon” type, no Toolbox is needed. If it’s the latter, the car’s Cfg needs to be updated. My orig red DCS battery is not, but the new one he installed was so he spent 5mins with toolbox and I was done in less than 30mins.
As for Li/Ohmmu vs not, it all boils down to whether people feel the value in the higher price tag and how often they’ll need to replace the std lead acid battery. Religious debate at this point.
Got the warning msg on Saturday and was going to drive down to the SC to pick up a replacement assuming Ranger service avail was days out. Checked on the app and there was availability first thing this morning so I booked it. $50 labor for not having to pick up and R&R the battery myself is a no brainer.
I did pick the Ranger’s brain about why some cars need Toolbox after while others don’t. Apparently if the battery is not of the “Nano Carbon” type, no Toolbox is needed. If it’s the latter, the car’s Cfg needs to be updated. My orig red DCS battery is not, but the new one he installed was so he spent 5mins with toolbox and I was done in less than 30mins.
As for Li/Ohmmu vs not, it all boils down to whether people feel the value in the higher price tag and how often they’ll need to replace the std lead acid battery. Religious debate at this point.
dark cloud
Active Member
Hopefully the new 12V lithium in the Plaid, and most likely in the 2021 Model S LR, will be able to be retrofitted into the older Model S's?
Assuming the software programmers can invest some time to create some new algorithm (or Config) for the different charging cycle from the lead acid 12v in the ageing fleet.
First look At The Tesla Model S New Lithium-Ion 12V Battery
Assuming the software programmers can invest some time to create some new algorithm (or Config) for the different charging cycle from the lead acid 12v in the ageing fleet.
First look At The Tesla Model S New Lithium-Ion 12V Battery
I have an 85 S RWD, I've had 3 OEM battery replaces over the 4 years of ownership, last battery was replaced a couple of months ago. I just got the EMMC recall. Without warning the battery died out about 300 miles from home, no warning, I got in the car and caput. Road side service came 90 Min later and was able to charge. I was able get home, schedule to charge at home probably 4 hours later. Checked the car no charge and the 12v was not connecting to car.
Again no warning. Just saying there is risk with the Tesla OEM 12v. When your out of warranty or out on the road you can be stranded on the road for 90 min, they will tow your car, but survival the rest of the way is on you. Dies at home up to you to find how to get it to the Service Center 3 or 4 days later, if your bad luck happens on a late friday or a weekend. Tesla service doesn't think a lot of people won't freak out, or look for alternatives. Not everyone can turn over there cars every 2 to 4 years. As with the perks with the older models if I can buy a newer model I still might try keeping the vintage Tesla.
Just put in a Ohmmu in my ‘16 MX90dD. With 48.5K. Ohmmu video was spot on, a very easy 30min DIY. Seeing all the discussions on value I’d say after my trend of having to replace OEM every two years, and had to get a jump the second time to make it to SC, two days after warning and scheduling replacement at first avail appointment (week away) drove me to Ohmmu instead of waiting for the warning that would probably show up in a couple months.
Ohmmu site ordering and service is great. FEDEX even here to Hawaii. Ordered and was at FEDEX next day and here the next day.
Back to value. Yes $419 with code (better than Amazon) and 4 year warranty but am betting it will last 8+ and even at 4 that’s better then the biennial change out costing days in terms of SC and potential for it dying before it gets to SC. So in my view the value is in a more reliable, longer term and greener preventative maintenance. Definitely a value for me.
Ohmmu site ordering and service is great. FEDEX even here to Hawaii. Ordered and was at FEDEX next day and here the next day.
Back to value. Yes $419 with code (better than Amazon) and 4 year warranty but am betting it will last 8+ and even at 4 that’s better then the biennial change out costing days in terms of SC and potential for it dying before it gets to SC. So in my view the value is in a more reliable, longer term and greener preventative maintenance. Definitely a value for me.
beatle
Active Member
That's because they put proprietary connectors on them:
Similar threads
- Article
