12v Battery Options - Which is best?

[Altes]

This has been covered ad nauseum and never has concrete evidence been presented that Lithium 12v batteries last any longer let alone the 3x longer required just to break even. Nor do they provide any advantages during their operational life over the $138 OEM battery. To the contrary, if you end up with issues with your 12v system while using an aftermarket 12v battery Tesla can void the warranty of related components citing the battery as the cause.

Nope, They would have to prove that the battery caused the failure

Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Ostrichsak]

Nope, They would have to prove that the battery caused the failure

Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Once again, people who struggle to read defending Ohmmu. The trend continues.

I'm very aware of the Magnuson Act and what it means. I often enlighten others talking about warranties on car forums of their rights due to this act. I didn't say that having an Ohmmu battery WOULD void your warranty. I said it COULD which is a very big difference. I also said specifically (try to keep up here... words have meaning and are important) that:

"If you have issues with your 12v system while using an aftermarket 12v battery, Tesla can void the warranty of related components citing the battery as the cause"

You posted a link to the Magnuson Act (with no other details other than "nope") which 100% supports exactly what I just said. Tesla can't void the warranty on a brake caliper due to an aftermarket 12v battery but they can prove that your battery caused some sort of voltage spike or other issue that caused another 12v component to fail to avoid having to replace it at their cost which is what the Magnuson Act requires.

tldr; The Magnuson Act states that the onus is on the manufacturer to PROVE the owner's modification contributed to the part failure thus allowing them to void or deny that warranty claim on that particular part. Due to the passage of this act, it is not incumbent on the owner to prove that it did not. Prior to this act, owners were being denied warranty work on 100% unrelated components citing owner modifications as the reason.

 

[Ostrichsak]

I've seen Ostrichsak post on this topic in other threads. He clearly has a bias against Ohmmu for some reason. From my experience, in 4 years I've had the OEM 12V battery replaced twice by Tesla, both times under warranty. That's an average of 2 years each (we'll see how long the 3rd one lasts). Now that my warranty has expired, when I have to replace the battery I'd seriously consider replacing with the Ohmmu unit. The main reason is warranty. Their website shows the warranty as:

"48 months from date of purchase 100% replacement coverage for performance failure of any sort. "

So they guarantee it will last at least 4 years. What's the warranty on the Tesla battery? I haven't been able to find it listed anywhere. But given reports by others having had to replace after 12 months I suspect it's only warranted for 90 days.

Regarding price, my friend has to replace his 12V battery and Tesla quoted him $275 installed. When I last had mine replaced under warranty I was quoted the same, though I didn't have to pay. So you could get lucky and the Tesla OEM may last you more than 2 years, but otherwise, the Ohmmu is more cost effective and will require fewer replacements.

Also keep in mind that the life of the battery depends on how often you drive your car. If you drive frequently the OEM battery will likely last longer since it will rarely require a deep cycle recharge. When your vehicle sits idle in the garage for long periods the 12V battery will run down before it automatically recharges. These long deep recharges are what deplete the battery life on Lead Acid Batteries. Lithium batteries are much better at this and are more likely to have a longer life for people who do not drive their car every day.

Ostrichsak is welcome to his opinion, but it's just that, his opinion.

Not an opinion. Fact. Ohmmu does NOTHING to improve performance in a Tesla. At all. The "extended life" debate isn't really a debate either since all data supports that both options have roughly the same life expectancy as well to include small outliers that represent a very small percentage of total batteries deployed.

One costs more and serves to make money off of peddling false promises (aka snake oil) to people who aren't in possession of enough common sense to do their own independent research on the topic and who believe anything they see in an ad. This is the exact customer Ohmmu is in search of. This and only this is my bias against Ohmmu.

It's a solution looking for a question and lots of people are being duped out of their money for a premium priced product that has zero benefits to Tesla owners.

 

[ArizonaP85]

Not an opinion. Fact. Ohmmu does NOTHING to improve performance in a Tesla. At all. The "extended life" debate isn't really a debate either since all data supports that both options have roughly the same life expectancy as well to include small outliers that represent a very small percentage of total batteries deployed.

One costs more and serves to make money off of peddling false promises (aka snake oil) to people who aren't in possession of enough common sense to do their own independent research on the topic and who believe anything they see in an ad. This is the exact customer Ohmmu is in search of. This and only this is my bias against Ohmmu.

It's a solution looking for a question and lots of people are being duped out of their money for a premium priced product that has zero benefits to Tesla owners.

Ostrichsak, please stop insulting fellow forum members, Tesla’s engineers and Ohmmu. New Model S feature lithium 12V batteries - are Elon and his engineers “dupes” or “peddling snake oil”?!?
Many, many Arizona and SoCal owners’ real world experiences prove that Ohmmu lithium batteries last much longer than original lead batteries … which was probably a major factor in why Tesla’s flagship models now feature lithium 12V batteries.
You’ve sadly staked out a wrong position in many posts and threads and, instead of either admitting you were wrong or just shutting up, you keep shouting 2+2=5 from the rooftops.
Please stop embarrassing yourself by insulting forum members, Tesla’s engineers and Ohmmu. You are wrong. Admit it and move on.

 

[Ostrichsak]

Ostrichsak, please stop insulting fellow forum members, Tesla’s engineers and Ohmmu. New Model S feature lithium 12V batteries - are Elon and his engineers “dupes” or “peddling snake oil”?!?
Many, many Arizona and SoCal owners’ real world experiences prove that Ohmmu lithium batteries last much longer than original lead batteries … which was probably a major factor in why Tesla’s flagship models now feature lithium 12V batteries.
You’ve sadly staked out a wrong position in many posts and threads and, instead of either admitting you were wrong or just shutting up, you keep shouting 2+2=5 from the rooftops.
Please stop embarrassing yourself by insulting forum members, Tesla’s engineers and Ohmmu. You are wrong. Admit it and move on.

Oh, well ArizonaP85 said I'm wrong then I must be wrong. ROFL

The big difference is that the new cars were engineered from the ground up FOR the new 12v battery (which is really nothing like the Ohmmu offering) which was also developed specifically for this car and has the engineering behind it (hardware & software) to support it properly.

The people who keep comparing an Ohmmu to the new 12v Tesla battery are just like people who think a Leaf and a Tesla are the same car. They couldn't be any more different other than sharing the word "lithium" which is where the similarities end.

The only one embarrassing themselves here is you with the inaccurate comparisons being bandied about as "proof" of some sort.

 

[ArizonaP85]

You’ve fallen for the fallacy in believing that your experience is everyone’s experience. You haven’t had any Tesla very long (according to your profile, you’ve had 6 different Model S in just a few years) & in Colorado so you haven’t had many, many Arizona & SoCal owners’ hot weather long-term ownership experiences with failed lead batteries, including being stranded, cars dragged out of garage, etc. (see many posts here on TMC).
You haven’t enjoy a long-lived Ohmmu lithium battery either.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. A year ago you may have said that the Broncos would win the Super Bowl. Lots of folks would have disagreed with you but it was fine for you to hold that opinion.
But you can’t make up your own facts. If you say now that the Broncos did win the last Super Bowl, that’s false.
Lots of TMC members’ real-world experiences AND NOW TESLA MAKING LITHIUM 12V BATTERIES STANDARD EQUIPMENT IN THEIR FLAGSHIP MODELS prove that you were wrong.
So please stop insulting fellow TMC members, Tesla’s engineers and Ohmmu. Moderators: FaceBook, Twitter and YouTube flag false posts and even suspend users for repeated violations. Will you please counsel Ostrichsak to stop insulting TMC members and posting false attacks on us, Tesla’s engineers and Ohmmu?

 

[Ostrichsak]

You’ve fallen for the fallacy in believing that your experience is everyone’s experience. You haven’t had any Tesla very long (according to your profile, you’ve had 6 different Model S in just a few years) & in Colorado so you haven’t had many, many Arizona & SoCal owners’ hot weather long-term ownership experiences with failed lead batteries, including being stranded, cars dragged out of garage, etc. (see many posts here on TMC).
You haven’t enjoy a long-lived Ohmmu lithium battery either.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. A year ago you may have said that the Broncos would win the Super Bowl. Lots of folks would have disagreed with you but it was fine for you to hold that opinion.
But you can’t make up your own facts. If you say now that the Broncos did win the last Super Bowl, that’s false.
Lots of TMC members’ real-world experiences AND NOW TESLA MAKING LITHIUM 12V BATTERIES STANDARD EQUIPMENT IN THEIR FLAGSHIP MODELS prove that you were wrong.
So please stop insulting fellow TMC members, Tesla’s engineers and Ohmmu. Moderators: FaceBook, Twitter and YouTube flag false posts and even suspend users for repeated violations. Will you please counsel Ostrichsak to stop insulting TMC members and posting false attacks on us, Tesla’s engineers and Ohmmu?

ROFL... yeah, you're right. Nobody has had a 12v battery fail in extremely cold weather. /sarcasm

I'm "posting false attacks on us, Tesla's engineers & Ohmmu"? Not even you know what you're talking about now.

I can already tell from only a few of your posts that you offer nothing of use to my experience on this forum & are trying only to incite arguments in the face of facts. Welcome to my ignore list.

 

[Doanster1]

Switzerland here.
Nothing inherently bad with the Ohmmu. @Ostrichsak is saying the bang-for-the-buck factor and advertised added benefits aren’t any better then the lead-acid std. Every situation is probably different so it really boils down to whether you want to pay the extra $$ for it.
Tesla’s new Li battery is tiny even compared to the Ohmmu, so size and weight do matter, along with the software ecosystem.
One data point from me: I just replaced the original battery in my ‘14 P85D recently with the factory unit for $214 installed in my garage. For my climate (PNW) and usage, Ohmmu doesn’t make sense. If it were comparably priced, I prob would use it.
Truce?

 

[Kaveman]

OhmMu battery still working great in my 2013 MS here in the FL heat. 1+ years and counting.
Kaveman

 

[electricar]

As someone who has suffered from corrosion on the battery terminals with lead/acid batteries and has seen it on Teslas I am wondering if the Ohmmu batteries eliminate this problem?

 

[android04]

As someone who has suffered from corrosion on the battery terminals with lead/acid batteries and has seen it on Teslas I am wondering if the Ohmmu batteries eliminate this problem?

I've only heard of 2 Model 3s with corrosion on the battery terminals in 3.5 years, but the Ohmmu would not ever have that issue. The corrosion is usually caused by acid or gas that leaks out of the battery (none of that comes out of a lithium iron phosphate battery). Normally, neither of those come out of a sealed lead acid battery like the one in the Tesla, especially because it has a vent tube that would vent any gasses to the bottom front of the car.

 

[jim5359]

We'll see how long it takes for Ostrichsak to blast you for suggesting that the Ohmmu battery might be better. I've been through 3 OEM Lead Acid batteries in nearly 4.5 years of ownership. So far they've all been covered under warranty, but now that I'm past the standard warranty, if this one goes out then I'll likely replace it with an Ohmmu battery. The Ohmmu has a 3 year warranty, while the OEM battery has no published warranty.

 

[dark cloud]

As someone who has suffered from corrosion on the battery terminals with lead/acid batteries and has seen it on Teslas I am wondering if the Ohmmu batteries eliminate this problem?

cleaning and maintaining/protecting them would be less expensive.

The first video is the product, and the second is a mechanic endorsing and explaining the advantages, and demonstrating the procedure with the cleaner and a couple of other products.

 

[Rocky_H]

I've been through 3 OEM Lead Acid batteries in nearly 4.5 years of ownership. So far they've all been covered under warranty, but now that I'm past the standard warranty, if this one goes out then I'll likely replace it with an Ohmmu battery. The Ohmmu has a 3 year warranty, while the OEM battery has no published warranty.

But frequently the standard batteries last fine. I just finally had my second replacement of the standard batteries at over 7 years, so mine have been lasting about 3.5 years each. These assumptions that the standard batteries all suck gets really out of hand around here.

 

[ArizonaP85]

But frequently the standard batteries last fine. I just finally had my second replacement of the standard batteries at over 7 years, so mine have been lasting about 3.5 years each. These assumptions that the standard batteries all suck gets really out of hand around here.

I think we all fall victim, to a greater or lesser degree, to assuming our experiences are everyone else’s experiences. In Arizona and SoCal we deal with much hotter temps than you do in Boise and lead acid batteries here tend to die much faster than your experiences. Maybe you find so many members talking about failures because so many more Tesla’s are sold in SoCal, Arizona and other warm places than in Boise?
Cue the guy from Colorado mountains to tell us how our lead acid batteries really didn’t fail and we’re idiots for spending more for reliable lithium batteries. After all, since he buys a different Tesla every year or two and lives in the Colorado mountains, his individual experience must be the same as members who live in hot SoCal, Arizona, etc. and keep their cars for longer … right?

 

[Rkgnaz]

this article will suffice: How Hot Weather Affects Your Car Battery and What to Do About It

Airizona heat is very hard on vehicle batteries

 

[UTArch]

I bought my 2013 Model S from an individual in April, 2020. After owning the car for 6 months I got the "Schedule low voltage battery replacement" warning. I do not know how old the battery was when I bought the car, so I had Tesla mobile service replace my 12V battery in Nov. 2020 . So, you can imagine my surprise when I got the "Schedule low voltage battery replacement" warning again mid-Feb. 2022 -- after only 15 months. I always garage my, car and when not in use it is plugged in to my home 110V outlet. In my 50 years of auto ownership that was the shortest lifespan of any 12V for any of the 15 cars I had previously owned. I made an appointment at my (fortunately) nearby Tesla service center and had the battery replaced with another OEM lead acid on March 1 this year. When I asked the techs at the service center if there was any pro-ration for such a short lifespan, they said the the battery has/had a 12 month warranty, so NO. I HOPE this was an anomaly, and that this will not be the continuing pattern.

 

[ArizonaP85]

Austin isn’t as hot as Phoenix but my experience is the same as all my model S-owning friends’: get a lithium Ohmmu 12V and drive away happy. Good luck!

 

[nitrous]

Your math is faulty. If you had a 2013 that got 3.5 years on average per battery before the one 1-year battery, wouldn't you assume that one is an outlier? Why would you base your decision off of that ONE experience? Doesn't seem like a very scientific conclusion to me. If it were me, I'd chalk that one up to the bad batches that were rolling out of Tesla for a bit (widely documented around the forums) and assume that the other two batteries that lasted 3.5 years on average were more indicative of the average life. Especially when most people on the forums are talking about 4+ years per battery.

I, myself, have had two cars that needed the 12v replaced (under warranty) that I bought used and both made it around 5-years. This random person posting about 1 year or less is just that... random. A statistical anomaly that's easily explained by the fact that Tesla was sourcing them from a supplier that had poor QC (par for the course when you're sourcing from the lowest bidder to meet the $35k Model 3 they were trying to achieve) and even changed up the battery they've been putting in new cars and warranty replacements. They were different enough to require a new firmware management change.

Even if you average in that one 1-year outlier, your average life for the $140 battery is still almost 3-years. In order that whiz-bang lithium battery you opted for to break even it will have to last NINE YEARS. There is absolutely no data that will support that these lithium 12v batteries will last any longer than OEM let alone 3x longer to justify the price. Remember, there's ZERO improvement on function in a Tesla during it's lifespan so the only way your investment pans out is if that sucker lasts a decade or more. Spoiler alert: it won't.

It's only a touchy subject because I'm not willing to let people like you get duped by bunk marketing that is supported by zero independent scientific data. Zero. When I call out the BSers on their BS they lash back thinking I'll recoil and acquiesce to their banging on their chest. That's not going to happen because I've got the facts and data on my side so... no need.

Face it, lithium 12v batteries in Tesla offer no advantages over OEM 12v batteries.

I guess apart from weight (and that actually might be the very reason Tesla is putting lithium batteries in the new cars, now) do you think better self discharge characteristics might be a valid consideration?

 

[Capn' Electric]

2015 Model S 85D, had the 12v light come on. Did some research, here's the skinny.
Call Tesla Road Service, cost is 200-220 for the battery and they do the work within 10 minutes.
You do have to remove the high power cable on the chassis, so, it's really just easiest for the small
extra cost to have them do it. Have a rag with you and clean up the compartment while they are there.
I did have a random light come on that night that my headlight was not working, but it was and the light
did go away.
I haven't noticed any increase in any way as far as recovered capacity charging as some have said, but
it is good peace of mind as if this goes while your out, your pretty much stuck unless you have a spare.
There is a simple trick to place a small AA size battery in the charge well to open the frunk, that vid is on
youtube. Elon, there should be a manual override to open the frunk, if the 12v is dead.
Extreme cold weather does affect these batteries, so getting the more expensive battery isn't always the best
choice. If you live in very cold winter areas, your best off with the rated lead battery that has maximum cca or
cold cranking amps. (650-750 cca) These will be ok in extreme weather.
So, this is one to let Tesla Roadside do for you at your home or away, it is easier, cost effective and you'll be glad
how quickly your zoom zoomin' again...... Thank you ELON! for this wonderful car !!!