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12v Battery Question

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geoffmanley

geoffmanley

Member
Aug 7, 2018
276
220
Porter Ranch, CA
#1
I have a 2013 P85+ with the extended warranty. Is the 12v battery covered under the extended warranty? I got a notification tonight that said 12v battery needs service, so I assume it's run its course. I'm at about 63k miles, so it's about time. Even if it is covered under the extended warranty, Tesla has been enforcing the $200 deductible so is it even worth it to take it to Tesla? I may need to have my brakes done as well since they have never had anything done to them, and they are starting to squeak a bit. Should I make an appointment with Tesla or just go to an independent shop? Thoughts, experiences, prices? If the brakes and battery cost a bit more than an independent shop, I don't care, I want the best for my baby. If the price is substantially higher maybe not.
 
#2
The 12 volt battery that is used today is not a wet cell lead acid battery. It is an AGM battery. Do you know what is in your car?
The 12 volt battery in a 2013 is not in an easy to access location. Apparently some disassembly is required to get access to it.
Factor in the fact that an independent shop might cause damage to the car if they don't know how to do the disassembly.

My 2016 has the 12 volt battery in an easy to access location. I could easily replace it myself if I could get the battery. Normal stores that sell batteries do not have it.
 
#3
Couple years ago Ranger did the 12volt on my 2014 P85 for $220 in my driveway.

On the brakes, they should be cleaned and lubricated every year or two. At this age though replacing pads and possibly even rotors is a good idea, Tesla is going to be pricey someone like EVTuning can supply parts cheaper and other than the parking brake which I would put new pads on the system is pretty normal.and anyone can handle it. The parking brake is not difficult just different YouTube is your friend.
 
#4
geoffmanley said:
I have a 2013 P85+ with the extended warranty. Is the 12v battery covered under the extended warranty? I got a notification tonight that said 12v battery needs service, so I assume it's run its course. I'm at about 63k miles, so it's about time. Even if it is covered under the extended warranty, Tesla has been enforcing the $200 deductible so is it even worth it to take it to Tesla? I may need to have my brakes done as well since they have never had anything done to them, and they are starting to squeak a bit. Should I make an appointment with Tesla or just go to an independent shop? Thoughts, experiences, prices? If the brakes and battery cost a bit more than an independent shop, I don't care, I want the best for my baby. If the price is substantially higher maybe not.
Click to expand...

12V is not covered under extended warranty. My wife's 2015 S70D (at about 35,000 miles) needed it replaced (got the usual warning a couple of weeks ago). Full cash pay about $230. Fast and easy on her dual drive. On an original rear motor S with the 'microwave space' frunk, the replacement is more awkward and complicated (FWIW there is a circuit board/fuse block attached to the battery post and the battery is deep in a hole with limited access). Done by mobile ranger. Note that make/model of AGM battery has changed since original production. Ranger had to do a minor firmware change to 'tell' the car about he characteristics of the battery (...no not a Li-ion, and not recommended).
 
  • Helpful
Reactions: CravingMender9 and SSedan
#7
CravingMender9 said:
Any particular reason why not recommended?
Click to expand...

Several reported issues. Lithium ion batteries do not do well in an automotive environment, particularly where they can get quite cold in the winter and hot in the summer. Where the battery is located under the frunk is not climate controlled.

Second, supposedly the Tesla charging circuit and firmware know the characteristics of a lead acid battery and how to charge and discharge properly. A lithium ion replacement would not have appropriate firmware and might not charge or discharge appropriately.

Indeed, some folks have used a lithium ion replacement and I suppose have had good success. I am not willing to take a chance.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: CravingMender9
#9
Cheburashka said:
Never had a problem with lithium batteries in my motorcycles or ICE cars.

Can Tesla's design really be that bad that it will run into issues with a lithium battery?
Click to expand...
Looks like you are in L.A., some of us live in places with variable weather, place I live on an average year sees a spread from -15f to low 90s, that is not the records, I have measure more than -25f and over 100f at my home.

Far as Tesla's design being "that bad it would run into issues" don't think anyone is saying that, different battery types just have different charging profiles and particular preferences. Tesla updates firmware even when swapping between the original and updated lead acid batteries because even with the same basic chemistry the batteries like things a little different.

When I looked into the lithium 12volt, I got a very "salesman" response to my questions if it was suitable for the climate here. I mean that in the worst of terms.
 
#11
JPP said:
Several reported issues. Lithium ion batteries do not do well in an automotive environment, particularly where they can get quite cold in the winter and hot in the summer. Where the battery is located under the frunk is not climate controlled.

Second, supposedly the Tesla charging circuit and firmware know the characteristics of a lead acid battery and how to charge and discharge properly. A lithium ion replacement would not have appropriate firmware and might not charge or discharge appropriately.

Indeed, some folks have used a lithium ion replacement and I suppose have had good success. I am not willing to take a chance.
Click to expand...

Can you give a link to the 'several reported issues'? I'd have to see it to believe it.

I find humor in your statement "Lithium ion batteries do not do well in an automotive environment" You do know we own Tesla's right? The car is LITERALLY a giant Li Ion bat. LOL
 
#12
I replaced the 12v myself back in December. The battery was $165 and there was no core charge. My first 12v battery was replaced February 2018 by a ranger and lasted until December 2019.

Replacing was more difficult than in an ICE car but overall not that bad.

A lot of factors probably played into that not lasting as long. (not garaged or plugged in at home and very cold winters)
 
#14
Zooomer said:
Can you give a link to the 'several reported issues'? I'd have to see it to believe it.

I find humor in your statement "Lithium ion batteries do not do well in an automotive environment" You do know we own Tesla's right? The car is LITERALLY a giant Li Ion bat. LOL
Click to expand...

See post #13. The 12V battery in all Teslas is not in a climate controlled space and can not be properly heated (or cooled). Li Ion batteries do not do well in very cold or hot environments. Tesla knows all about Li-Ion and could of course use such a battery as a 12V substitute. They probably have a pretty good reason why they stick with 'old fashioned' lead-acid.. And batteries have different charging parameters depending on chemistry/construction.

For those of you who have substituted an aftermarket Li-Ion 12V battery, great for you. I wish you good luck and no system failures. I also wish you good luck in the event of some kind of failure (electrical or otherwise) under warranty. Not sure Tesla will jump to the rescue. YMMV.
 
#15
But the point is YOU stated 'several' reported issues. Surely if you said that, you can back it up with ONE?

There are countless posts of people with problems with their OEM lead acid battery and they are only made to last ~5 years so that's the benchmark. So where are the issues you're talking about?
 
#16
Zooomer said:
But the point is YOU stated 'several' reported issues. Surely if you said that, you can back it up with ONE?

There are countless posts of people with problems with their OEM lead acid battery and they are only made to last ~5 years so that's the benchmark. So where are the issues you're talking about?
Click to expand...

Zoomer--

Sorry that I don't have any direct links/references, but just anecdotal comments seen over 7 years here on TMC and also on the Tesla forum. I guess you can Google for opinions on Li-Ion vs. lead acid in 'under the hood' automotive applications. As I noted, YMMV.
 
#17
There was a guy on here just a month ago that put a lithium in his brand new car and is having warranty issues,


Since ZOOMER is implying a lithium battery needs no temperature controls we can infer that Elon and his engineers are imbeciles for putting such effort into managing battery temperature.......

Now granted the 12volt is a lot less likely to overheat from load or rapid charging but you get the point. Yes the main pack is similar chemistry but it is managed much differently and at significant expense because it is necessary.

Far as failures or problems hopefully most folks who live in cold climates grasp the "answers" on cold tolerance of the lithium 12volt are salesmanship and not hard data or REASONS why the concerns are not present in this design.

This seems like a good place to post a reminder, not everyone lives in Cali.

Far as issues with the lithium in cold temps, when did they begin to offer them? Do we have any actual data they last longer in this application with Tesla's charging protocols? I know what the company claims but do we have evidence of them lasting beyond the 3-5 years I believe the originals are?
 
Last edited:
#19
My original OEM 12v lead acid battery lasted just a little over a year. I have a hard time believing an aftermarket lithium battery made specifically for the Tesla, like the Ohmmu, would be anywhere near that bad. As a matter of fact, it comes with a standard 4 year full replacement warranty.

SSedan said:
There was a guy on here just a month ago that put a lithium in his brand new car and is having warranty issues,
Click to expand...

If I recall, his problems with the car had nothing to do with the lithium battery, but Tesla decided to give him a hard time because they saw that he had replaced the battery. The lesson I learned from that thread is that if you replace your lead battery with lithium, pop the lead battery back in before you bring the vehicle in for warranty work.
 
#20
I should have stated explicitly his issue was with warranty claims not with the lithium causing harm. Far as an original lasting a year, yeah sometimes things fail early but I believe 3-4 years is more typical.
My car was 4 years and I think 80K-ish, started off in New Mexico then here to Wisconsin(lots of temp extremes) and I got the 12volt warning after running the car down to 1 mile trying to get the BMS to give me back some lost displayed mileage(wouldn't do again), I believe the main pack was low enough it refused to charge the 12volt and I drained it low enough to do a little harm.

What volume of 12volt liniums do we have results from 3+ years in in environments outside Cali?
 
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