12V battery replacement: Tesla Li-ion

[mark95476]

Tesla replaced the lead-acid battery in new S/X with a Li-ion. It's smaller and more resilient. It's natural that they make that available to 3/Y owners as well. Lets hope this happens soon.

Tesla’s Elon Musk ponders 12V lithium-ion battery replacements for older cars

Elon Musk recently hinted at a very welcome and simple update for Tesla’s vehicles, especially those which have already replaced their 12-volt batteries in the past. According to the CEO, Tesla would be looking into the idea of equipping older vehicles with a 12-volt lithium-ion battery, similar...

www.teslarati.com

 

[jcanoe]

The lithium ion 12V battery costs 3X what the current maintenance free lead acid battery costs. In the Model S, Model X replacing the 12V battery requires removing the front trunk bin and under hood trim. Tesla designed the Model 3, Model Y so that accessing, replacing the 12V battery is much easier requires less time to perform this service. On the other hand the latest Biodefense mode feature on the Model 3, Model Y means that the larger air intake housing has to be removed to access the 12V battery.

Other than for auto racing where the lower weight is a benefit a lithium battery may not be the best choice for an automotive 12V battery. Lithium batteries do not perform well in cold temperatures or tolerate high temperatures without active cooling. Manufacturers of after market lithium ion batteries such as Ohmmu claim that the lithium battery will last longer than a lead-acid battery but where is the data to back up these claims?

Another option would be to use an absorbent glass mat (AGM) 12V battery. That is what Toyota uses in the Prius and what GM used in the Chevy Volt plug-in hybrid and now in the Chevy Bolt EV. An AGM battery is maintenance free, can be installed in any orientation and can be placed inside the passenger compartment, i.e. below the floor of the cargo area. AGM batteries do cost about 2X as much as a conventional flooded lead acid battery. There doesn't appear to be a deep cycle AGM battery of the needed size, dimensions to fit the Model 3, Model Y that has the 45Ah capacity spec'd by Tesla for the current 12V maintenance free flooded lead acid battery.

 

[thesmokingman]

It's natural that they make that available to 3/Y owners as well. Lets hope this happens soon.

Tesla’s Elon Musk ponders 12V lithium-ion battery replacements for older cars

Elon Musk recently hinted at a very welcome and simple update for Tesla’s vehicles, especially those which have already replaced their 12-volt batteries in the past. According to the CEO, Tesla would be looking into the idea of equipping older vehicles with a 12-volt lithium-ion battery, similar...

www.teslarati.com

Huh... natural as in you think they should pay for this cost for everyone retroactively or just make it available for purchase?

The li-lon is not required at all. If you have 500 bucks waiting to burn then yea blow it on a li-ion battery for the minimal gains and disadvantages.

 

[iamnid]

The lithium ion 12V battery costs 3X what the current maintenance free lead acid battery costs. In the Model S, Model X replacing the 12V battery requires removing the front trunk bin and under hood trim. Tesla designed the Model 3, Model Y so that accessing, replacing the 12V battery is much easier requires less time to perform this service. On the other hand the latest Biodefense mode feature on the Model 3, Model Y means that the larger air intake housing has to be removed to access the 12V battery.

Other than for auto racing where the lower weight is a benefit a lithium battery may not be the best choice for an automotive 12V battery. Lithium batteries do not perform well in cold temperatures or tolerate high temperatures without active cooling. Manufacturers of after market lithium ion batteries such as Ohmmu claim that the lithium battery will last longer than a lead-acid battery but where is the data to back up these claims?

Another option would be to use an absorbent glass mat (AGM) 12V battery. That is what Toyota uses in the Prius and what GM used in the Chevy Volt plug-in hybrid and now in the Chevy Bolt EV. An AGM battery is maintenance free, can be installed in any orientation and can be placed inside the passenger compartment, i.e. below the floor of the cargo area. AGM batteries do cost about 2X as much as a conventional flooded lead acid battery. There doesn't appear to be a deep cycle AGM battery of the needed size, dimensions to fit the Model 3, Model Y that has the 45Ah capacity spec'd by Tesla for the current 12V maintenance free flooded lead acid battery.

I'd love to see an AGM battery replacement.

 

[p4594spa]

The lithium ion battery for the Tesla IS listed in the Tesla parts store $165.00

#	Part	Part Number	Sales Restriction	Unit Price	Repair Quantity	Order in Quantity
1	12V LI-ION BATTERY TLA	1598486-00-C	Over-the-Counter(No VIN)	$165.00	1	1

 

[GtiMart]

Would putting such a battery in a model 3 or Y require a software change? I assume the charging might be different?

 

[jcanoe]

Ohmmu currently sells drop in replacement 12V lithium iron phosphate (LFP) batteries for Tesla vehicles. Ohmmu states that their battery management system protects the battery from extreme conditions (without specifying) and also balances the cells for longer life.

12V Lithium Battery for TESLA Model Y | ohmmu.com

 

[Mike_TV]

I'd love to see an AGM battery replacement.

Me too. In another car, I had a VW OEM AGM battery that was still going strong after nearly nine years. Replaced it last year under caution.

 

[mark95476]

Retrofit is fine for my June 2020 build. Not $500 (see below) unless you want to go aftermarket with Ohmmu. Li-ion replacement should last life of the car or a very long time.

I can see Tesla integrating into future builds of the M3/MY as running change.

Huh... natural as in you think they should pay for this cost for everyone retroactively or just make it available for purchase?

The li-lon is not required at all. If you have 500 bucks waiting to burn then yea blow it on a li-ion battery for the minimal gains and disadvantages.

Thanks for digging this up! This Tesla Li-ion battery is probably the same as or cleaper than an AGM.

The lithium ion battery for the Tesla IS listed in the Tesla parts store $165.00

#	Part	Part Number	Sales Restriction	Unit Price	Repair Quantity	Order in Quantity
1	12V LI-ION BATTERY TLA	1598486-00-C	Over-the-Counter(No VIN)	$165.00	1	1

The CATL LFP cells Tesla is putting in their China made M3 SR+ (probably MY as well) cars have the safety of LFP and are very resilient (no cold gating) from Bjorn's tests. Those seem like the logical choice for the 12V battery replacement.

Ohmmu currently sells drop in replacement 12V lithium iron phosphate (LFP) batteries for Tesla vehicles. Ohmmu states that their battery management system protects the battery from extreme conditions (without specifying) and also balances the cells for longer life.

12V Lithium Battery for TESLA Model Y | ohmmu.com

 

[TomServo]

The lithium ion battery for the Tesla IS listed in the Tesla parts store $165.00

#	Part	Part Number	Sales Restriction	Unit Price	Repair Quantity	Order in Quantity
1	12V LI-ION BATTERY TLA	1598486-00-C	Over-the-Counter(No VIN)	$165.00	1	1

Hopefully this becomes available for the Y/3 in the coming years.

 

[Tha_Ape]

Huh... natural as in you think they should pay for this cost for everyone retroactively or just make it available for purchase?

The li-lon is not required at all. If you have 500 bucks waiting to burn then yea blow it on a li-ion battery for the minimal gains and disadvantages.

Its a nice weight savings for a track car... they sell them at every road course ive taken my cars (non-Tesla) to. But for a 4400lb car it really doesnt make a huge difference in weight. I'll pass and stick with the lead acid.

 

[Midnightsun]

A Lifepo4 battery will last about 10 years as compared to 4. With a properly configured bms and cold weather feature (heats battery when cold) they are a much better choice and will most likely live as long as the main battery pack. Personally I think it would be a great move.

 

[Watts_Up]

There has been already many threads on the lead-acid battery versus Li-ion battery.

One issue with lead-acid is that the battery cannot be discharged below 50%,
while Li-ion loses capacity when the temperature is below freezing.

 

[e645824]

The lithium ion battery for the Tesla IS listed in the Tesla parts store $165.00

#	Part	Part Number	Sales Restriction	Unit Price	Repair Quantity	Order in Quantity
1	12V LI-ION BATTERY TLA	1598486-00-C	Over-the-Counter(No VIN)	$165.00	1	1

How do I find this in the Tesla parts store? It isn't in the regular Store. Ah, it is here Parts Catalog

Thanks,

Scott

 

[jcanoe]

Parts Catalog

You need to log in using your Tesla Id and Password.

For over the counter items such as the 12V battery you can contact your local Tesla Service center.

 

[brkaus]

Does it say the specs of the li-ion battery?

With enough other redesign and it doesn’t need to have the same output as before. It could, but doesn’t have to.

 

[jcanoe]

The current Model 3, Model Y 12V battery is a sealed maintenance free (MF), deep cycle, flooded lead acid battery. The battery has a rated capacity of 45Ah, i.e. should be capable of delivering 1 amp into a load for 45 hours or 2 amps into a load for 22.5 hours, etc. When the Tesla Model Y is parked without Sentry mode or FSD Summon active the power drain is ~25W. 25W/12.6V= ~2 amps. Under normal conditions the 12V battery is capable of powering the essential systems such as the alarm, BT receiver and LTE modem for about a day before needing to be charged by the Tesla vehicle.

 

[Cal1]

Has anyone verified that 2021 MS's are shipping with 12 volt Li batteries? I read the rumors but so far I've not seen anyone post they have one in their car.

 

[iwannam3]

Has anyone verified that 2021 MS's are shipping with 12 volt Li batteries? I read the rumors but so far I've not seen anyone post they have one in their car.

All the Plaid in depth you tube videos show the very much smaller Li battery. It's in the parts catalog. Assume new software and mods on the DC/DC converter. Ohmmu is over $400, at $160 must be very much smaller. Does it use Tesla 2170 or even 18650 cylindrical cells to get the cost down?

 

[NY_Rob]

Personally, if my standard L/A battery failed I would hold off replacing it with an alternative chemistry until a LifePO4 (vs. Li-Ion) battery is available. LifePO4 has many safety advantages over Li-Ion and it's natural nominal (3.2V) and charge (3.65V) voltages make it perfectly suited as a 12V system automotive battery. The cutoff voltage of LifePO4 cell is 2.0 volts which means a 4 cell LifePO4 battery can be safely discharged to 8.0 volts... try that with a lead-Acid battery.