12v battery upgrade - worth it?

[Loco_Nomad]

Is it worth it to upgrade regular 12v battery to LITHIUM 12V BATTERY from OHMMU ? It is not cheap so does it make any sense to do so?

 

[Tronguy]

Probably not. There were a batch of early failure 12V batteries a year or two ago. But that’s been it with Teslas.
Otherwise, the things that kill, “normal” 12V batteries lead-acid batteries, like repetitive high currents in cold weather (starting an ICE motor, which the Tesla doesn’t have) or deep discharge, which can happen if a car’s battery charger fails (not that uncommon with an ICE car, very rare with Teslas, since the 12V battery charges from the ever-present traction battery) don’t happen. The 12V in a Tesla just tends to run the low-voltage electronics, like the radio and computers. Hence, the thing tends to last forever.
So, no point in putting in some purported high-performance battery; save your money and spend the cash on something that really matters, like mud flaps.

 

[tengtengvn]

Probably not. There were a batch of early failure 12V batteries a year or two ago. But that’s been it with Teslas.
Otherwise, the things that kill, “normal” 12V batteries lead-acid batteries, like repetitive high currents in cold weather (starting an ICE motor, which the Tesla doesn’t have) or deep discharge, which can happen if a car’s battery charger fails (not that uncommon with an ICE car, very rare with Teslas, since the 12V battery charges from the ever-present traction battery) don’t happen. The 12V in a Tesla just tends to run the low-voltage electronics, like the radio and computers. Hence, the thing tends to last forever.
So, no point in putting in some purported high-performance battery; save your money and spend the cash on something that really matters, like mud flaps.

Wut!!! Many people are on 2nd and 3rd batteries with in 2-3 years.

 

[Tam]

Is it worth it to upgrade regular 12v battery to LITHIUM 12V BATTERY from OHMMU ? It is not cheap so does it make any sense to do so?

It makes sense because Tesla is providing 12V lithium with its new car productions so why not upgrade?

The problem is: You have a Tesla and not just a traditional car.

In a traditional car, you have lots of options for doing it yourself with simple components like a 12V battery.

In theory, that should work in a Tesla but Tesla might write software program codes to detect that you are not using its battery and your new expensive non-Tesla might work for only just a while. Not because it's a bad battery but because it's not a Tesla battery. And Tesla does not believe in retrofitting/upgrading most of its hardware even when you offer to pay, including the 12V so to your answer for a simple 12V battery: It's complicated, and good luck!

 

[Tronguy]

Wut!!! Many people are on 2nd and 3rd batteries with in 2-3 years.

Odd. Got a 2018 M3. 12V battery got replaced when the pyro fuse blew in early 2019; been working fine since then.

 

[Tam]

Odd. Got a 2018 M3. 12V battery got replaced when the pyro fuse blew in early 2019; been working fine since then.

Tesla works with its numbers and that is why it is switching to 12V Lithium battery because it is tired of servicing lead acid batteries, including towing, during new car warranty.

 

[scottf200]

Seems like there are some 12v battery management scenarios that have to be managed and vary

1) Tesla 12v lead acid - Tesla manages with understanding that type
2) Tesla 12v lithium - Tesla manages with understanding that type
3) Ohmmu 12v lithium - Ohmm BMS manages BUT Tesla thinks it is a 12v lead acid and manages it that way. Ohmmu has to deal with that interface.

 

[Rice&Curry]

Wut!!! Many people are on 2nd and 3rd batteries with in 2-3 years.

I am worried more that the Tesla Battery Management SW may not be suitable and optimized to handle a non Tesla OEM battery.

 

[DCGOO]

Probably not. There were a batch of early failure 12V batteries a year or two ago. But that’s been it with Teslas.
Otherwise, the things that kill, “normal” 12V batteries lead-acid batteries, like repetitive high currents in cold weather (starting an ICE motor, which the Tesla doesn’t have) or deep discharge, which can happen if a car’s battery charger fails (not that uncommon with an ICE car, very rare with Teslas, since the 12V battery charges from the ever-present traction battery) don’t happen. The 12V in a Tesla just tends to run the low-voltage electronics, like the radio and computers. Hence, the thing tends to last forever.
So, no point in putting in some purported high-performance battery; save your money and spend the cash on something that really matters, like mud flaps.

Is your car in warranty? Tesla will replace as often as necessary for free, probably in your driveway or work parking lot. If your car is not covered by warranty, the analysis is made somewhat more complex. The 12v has been replaced twice on my X.

 

[Steinmetz]

Tesla works with its numbers and that is why it is switching to 12V Lithium battery because it is tired of servicing lead acid batteries, including towing, during new car warranty.

I have a 2019 I bought new from Tesla. I received a 12V battery failure warning on my display about 6 weeks ago. I called for mobile service and they replaced the battery the next day at a cost to me of $165 for the battery and $75 for labor. Car was still under warranty and I advised I thought the battery was covered and had read where others had been replaced at no charge. Technician called and double checked, but no joy. Considered a wear/tear or consumable item and not warranted. No mention of 12V battery in warranty, implicit or explicit.

 

[Only Trons]

My personal experiences:

1. 2013 Model S (delivered in April 2013)

a. Original 12v battery lasted from 2013 - 2016. Replaced by Tesla.
b. Second 12V battery lasted from 2016 - 2019. Replaced by Tesla.
c. I installed Ohmmu battery myself in late 2019. I was receiving "replace 12V battery" alerts. Tesla didn't have any and so my service appointment was postponed multiple times. No problems to date with Ohmmu battery.

2. 2016 Model X (delivered in Sep 2016)

a. Still on original 12V battery. 5+ years. I'm really surprised. I will consider replacing with Ohmmu battery when the time comes.



@Tronguy : I noticed your avatar. Looks somewhat similar to mine.

 

[DCGOO]

I have a 2019 I bought new from Tesla. I received a 12V battery failure warning on my display about 6 weeks ago. I called for mobile service and they replaced the battery the next day at a cost to me of $165 for the battery and $75 for labor. Car was still under warranty and I advised I thought the battery was covered and had read where others had been replaced at no charge. Technician called and double checked, but no joy. Considered a wear/tear or consumable item and not warranted. No mention of 12V battery in warranty, implicit or explicit.

Mine has been replaced twice. Paying for it never even came up. Even the early quote you have to approve was for $0.00

 

[Loco_Nomad]

thanks guys for your input, I guess I just wait till it dies or near death and I'll get the ohmmu one

 

[Tronguy]

@Tronguy : I noticed your avatar. Looks somewhat similar to mine.

Ha. ET vs. AT. I still got the collection of stuff that has that patch on the side, two chevrons down, from a mere (counting on fingers) 45 years ago

Back to the topic at hand. So, before the house got a second Tesla, I had been driving an early Gen 3 Prius around. In many respects, the Prius electrical systems resemble that of a Tesla: Traction battery, serious electric motors, and a mat-based lead-acid battery. (We won't talk about the ICE part of it, except to note that it's the traction battery, only, that spins the ICE in order to start it in conjuction with those motors.)
So, the lead-acid, 12V battery does in the Prius what the 12V battery does in a Tesla: Runs the lights, radios, and computers. And, I think, the oil and coolant pumps. But not the air conditioning.
So, got the car in December of 2009. In spring of 2011 the 12V battery died. Got a jump from the spouse, got the car started (at which point the traction battery to 12V charger kicked in), and drove to Advanced Auto. They had a replacement, loaned me a wrench or three, and I had the new one in and was on my way in short order.
That was 2011. In 2021 sold the Prius to a progeny and it's still running. With that replacement battery. So, that's like 11 years on the same lead-acid battery.
Before Prius, I more-or-less expected to replace the lead-acid battery in a $RANDOM car every two to five years, plus or minus the occasional incident where somebody left the headlights on and ran the battery down; no surprise to anybody, doing that tends to kill batteries. (Bad things happen on a six-cell battery when, due to natural variations in the state of charge, one of the six cells happens to have less charge than the other five. The weak sister, when the headlights run the battery down, gets a voltage reversal on the cell, and that leads to Bad Chemistry which kills the cell. For that matter, 48V central office lead-acid batteries, 1.5 feet in diameter and five feet high, get similar problems when fully discharged, and those are a lot more expensive and time consuming to replace. See: AT&T Pub on Low Voltage Cut Off.)
I always figured that the reason that that Prius battery has lasted so long because has been because, unlike "normal" 12V car batteries, the Prius battery hasn't had to deliver power to start an ICE, especially in cold weather. I'm surprised to hear from all of you that Teslas have been having multiple bad batteries over time. Which makes me think that the cause is one of two things:

1. A battery manufacturer who can't make decent batteries. It happens, especially if one is going for the lowest cost battery. (Think of the original Prius failure, an OEM battery failure a little over a year after getting the car.)
2. Tesla doesn't have its charging algorithms under control and the battery is getting deeply discharged for some reason. Hm. The Prius, as far as I know, doesn't run much beyond the alarm system when the car is off. Teslas, however, have Sentry mode and other things going. I wonder if the traction battery to 12V battery inverter is cycled when the car is nominally off and parked?

 

[tengtengvn]

Odd. Got a 2018 M3. 12V battery got replaced when the pyro fuse blew in early 2019; been working fine since then.

If you drive the car often then the 12V battery doesn't work as hard as the one in a car that mostly sitting for a long period of time.

I have a 2019 I bought new from Tesla. I received a 12V battery failure warning on my display about 6 weeks ago. I called for mobile service and they replaced the battery the next day at a cost to me of $165 for the battery and $75 for labor. Car was still under warranty and I advised I thought the battery was covered and had read where others had been replaced at no charge. Technician called and double checked, but no joy. Considered a wear/tear or consumable item and not warranted. No mention of 12V battery in warranty, implicit or explicit.

My 12V battery was replaced last year under the factory warranty.

 

[MobileClimate]

Could be an issue with the door motors since they draw high amperage from the 12 v battery..i think there is a problem with the software and the dcdc converter that's causing battery failures ..if you look at the amp draw in the logs its all over the place dont know if its the current sensor or firmware issue would like to compare another 2020 mx logs if someone has toolbox

 

[Spark1993]

Just to add to the list. My 2021M3 is having its 12v battery replaced due to a failure. The only upside right now is I have no audio cues, it's bliss! Right now cruising on standard autopilot with no bings and bongs and no UFO reversing sound!! I do miss the radio. This is the ultimate Joe mode. Edit: I have just noticed this is a modelX thread but, it's still relatable.

 

[StanMI]

Had mine replaced last Fall. 2020 X, no charge.

 

[eml2]

My June 2018 Model X is still on its first battery. Most nights it is parked inside with Sentry Mode off and door unlocked.

 

[MEAllard]

Just had my 12V replaced on a 2020 MX. Tech said these batteries last 2-4 years (Im on the low end i guess). But was 100% warranty. I asked about the Lithium Ion batteries and he mentioned an incomparable wiring connection/harness? I know it can be done, just passing on his comment. I was getting the battery low/error for almost 5 weeks - tried to get mobile service earlier, was canceled cause they didn't have the battery. My X is kept in a heated garage, but most of my rides are under 10 miles (if that matters). Still, just 2 years on the battery.