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14-30 Dryer Outlet for Charging?

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by CHGolferJim, May 24, 2014.

  1. CHGolferJim

    CHGolferJim Member

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    #1 CHGolferJim, May 24, 2014
    Last edited: May 24, 2014
    What are your experienced tips for charging a Volt or Tesla S85 from such a dryer outlet? I'm thinking of using what I have with a new car (at some point) until some experience points me towards an HPWC or other hardware.

    For example, should I be worried/careful about frequently unplugging and re plugging the dryer's plug? Can an electrician put a double plug in the laundry room to avoid that (as long as dryer use and EV charging are not simultaneous)?

    Thanks.
     

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  2. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    Would you have to unplug your dryer each time? That would probably get old very quickly.
    Is there room for a 14-50 outlet to be added separately? You could just leave the UMC hanging on the wall and only unplug it for road trips.
     
  3. TonyWilliams

    TonyWilliams Active Member

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    Add a second NEMA 14-30R and put a manual transfer switch between them.


    Manual Controller, 1276 | by Legrand

    Pass & Seymour 1276 DPDT Manual Controller Switch; 30 Amp, Gray
    Manual Controller Switch, Two Position; 30 Ampere; 120/277 Vac; Power Rating 2 Hp At 120/240 Vac; Operation Type Maintained; Contact Configuration Dpdt; Toggle Handle; Brown; Side Wiring; Wall Plate Not Included; Size 1.5 in W x 1.469 in D
     
  4. CHGolferJim

    CHGolferJim Member

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    #4 CHGolferJim, May 24, 2014
    Last edited: May 24, 2014
    Breaker box is full, trying to figure out my options, hoping for something simple. Seems some of the smaller amp breakers can be combined to make room for a 14-50 outlet, but I don't understand how yet. Thanks.
     
  5. TonyWilliams

    TonyWilliams Active Member

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    Another option is a Ronk 7103 DPDT with 100 amp main contacts, 100 amp aux contacts. You could use this for air conditioners that run in the day, summer only, and at night the same breaker can charge your car.

    At my house, I have two 50 amp breakers for A/C, and I use the downstairs system for an outside NEMA 14-50R. For the rare times when I need this air conditioner, I won't have power to the outside charge outlet.
     
  6. Cottonwood

    Cottonwood Roadster#433, Model S#S37

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    There is physically full, and main panel/breaker out of capacity.

    The physical issue can usually be solved by so-called "pancake," "skinny," or "thin" breakers. For example, here is a Siemens product that puts two 20 Amp single pole breakers in the space of one normal single pole breaker, Siemens Q2020 Two 20-Amp Single Pole 120-Volt "Thin" Circuit Breakers - Amazon.com If you replace four existing singe pole breakers with two of these, then you make the physical space available for one high power (30, 50, or 100 Amp) two-pole, 240 Volt breaker.

    The Amperage capacity of the panel, service entrance, or main breaker is the second constraint that you have to worry about. There are several ways to calculate this depending on your location and inspector policies, but basically the calculations want to make sure that there is an extremely low chance of going over 80% of the main breakers rating for any lengthy periods of time. Such events would probably trip the main breaker, a big annoyance, and something you want to avoid.

    Your electrician should be able to see if your circuit breaker panel can accept the skinny, thin breakers, and do the load calculations to see if the panel can support a large 240 Volt circuit. If you electrician says he can't do the research, or "it can't be done," get a second opinion.

    Good Luck!
     
  7. CHGolferJim

    CHGolferJim Member

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    Photo of box; assume there is available capacity, as we've just added a room; the numbers on the individual breakers add to 785.
     

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  8. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    You are already using 1/2" breakers. Can't fit another 240V in there. You could get another 120V by converting that lower right breaker to half-space breakers, but you won't get 240V.
     
  9. cgiGuy

    cgiGuy Member

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    This wouldn't require any more room in the breaker box, right? Sounds like it might be your solution and keep you from unplugging things.
     
  10. Cosmacelf

    Cosmacelf Active Member

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    Add a sub panel off this main panel. You'll have to move some circuits over to the sub panel, but this usually isn't a problem. This will then give you capacity for more circuits down the road as well.
     
  11. Mnlevin

    Mnlevin Member

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    #11 Mnlevin, May 24, 2014
    Last edited: May 24, 2014
    if the outlet is accessible and you can reach it with the Charging Cable the just use what you have. It will probably charge at around 20 mph and overnight should get you all you need for the next day unless you do excessive driving. You will need to purchase the adapter at the SC for around $50 but it would be a good one to have for traveling. BTW dont waste your money on a HPWC unless you have dual chargers in the car AND you expect to need to get a quick charge to go somewhere after you have just come back from a long drive. Overnight charging is all you need for the most part. If you run a limo service and need to keep going and coming then maybe consider that.
     
  12. Ven Rala

    Ven Rala Member

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    I used a similar 10-30 outlet for almost a year when I lived in a townhouse and could only run a 30amp wire down to an outlet I installed at my parking space. It worked fine. A 30amp is plenty of charge. You get about 18-25 miles per hour. I plugged and unplugged daily without a problem. Until you figure out a long term solution this will work fine.
     
  13. TonyWilliams

    TonyWilliams Active Member

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    #13 TonyWilliams, May 24, 2014
    Last edited: May 24, 2014
    No, no additional breaker needed, and that's why I suggested it. The switch can physically be between the two NEMA 14-30R outlets. No sub panels, simple and painless. The only thing that would be required of the circuit breaker is to turn it off while you're installing the switch and extra NEMA 14-30R out by the dryer. Then turn it on. End of circuit breaker interaction.

    Charge the car at night, dry clothes in the day (or reverse), all on the same circuit.

    The switch that I recommend is way less than $100. A second NEMA 14-30R with box is less than $20. The cost to install shouldn't take more than one hour of an electrician's time.

    Manual Controller, 1276 | by Legrand

    Pass & Seymour 1276 DPDT Manual Controller Switch; 30 Amp, Gray
    Manual Controller Switch, Two Position; 30 Ampere; 120/277 Vac


    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTRO5KPuzB42tF5lu-8nvvyoPrE50w-NB-jLntuVVlJLoyMQynqVA.jpg

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Tacket

    Tacket Member

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    That switch is awesome and likely what I'll do when the 2nd EV arrives!
     
  15. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    That is what I did so that I could add an HPWC and a 40A 14-50 in my garage. 100A sub panel off my 200a main panel. It was easy for my electrician, half day of work.
     
  16. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    I have one 14-50 off the main breaker and had the electrician put in a 100A sub panel. Once I get some funds for an HPWC, I'll have him hook it up (but probably at only 50 amps because there is a 6 KVA UPS and a 20 amp 240V washer and a 20 amp 240V dryer running off of the sub panel as well.)
     
  17. linkster

    linkster Member

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    Been utilizing a 14-30 for 16 mos. with a 160 mile round trip commute with great results.

    I prefer not to plug/unplug daily, so I keep one UMC constantly plugged in, one UMC in the trunk, and an HPWC for guests.

    Good-Luck!
     
  18. CHGolferJim

    CHGolferJim Member

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    Thanks, that would be ideal, but I only have the one plug at the moment, and the dryer uses it. I like the "install a 2nd outlet and flip switch" idea which I felt intuitively was possible. At this rate, I'm likely to get a Volt or something before Gen3 arrives.
     
  19. linkster

    linkster Member

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    TonyWilliams suggested Manual Controller Switch is a waay clever solution, and his company QuickChargePower.com offers many interesting products.
     
  20. TonyWilliams

    TonyWilliams Active Member

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    Thanks. I have way more ideas than I have time to build them all !!!

    Check out the investigative work I did this evening on the Tesla NEMA 14-50 UMC plug:

    Tesla Model S UMC cut open and modified to J1772 - Page 13
     

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