14-50/HPWC Installation Price Check

[ICEisdead]

Hi everyone. Military member with the desire to have a "portable" HPWC based on potential military moves. Below is my quote for a 14-50 outlet to be installed with a HPWC purchased through the electrician:

Furnish and Install new dedicated 50A circuit to power a new NEMA 14-50 receptacle installed within 3' of the panel - $826
Furnish and install Tesla Wall Connector - Cost of charger $500 + Shipping $35 + markup $50 = $615
Furnish and install a new appliance cord to plug in HPWC - $146
Total - $1,587

Seems a little high. Obviously there's a slight markup on the TWC, but they're out of stock so that might be worth the additional cost. Company seems incredibly professional and knowledgable about EVs and charging, which I do think is worth some value.

Look to hear opinions on whether this is a well-priced quote?

 

[jjrandorin]

My first question would be:

Since you want to be "portable" what "exactly" do you hope to gain by having the electrician add a pigtail onto a tesla HPWC (thus voiding any sort of warranty on it) vs just using the mobile connector that comes with the car, and a 14-50 adapter for that for $45 or so?

Said another way, do you somehow need the charging speed difference between 32 amps and 48 amps so much that you are willing to pay 615 + 146 = $761 for the ability to have a HPWC put into a non supported by tesla state (and non supported by that electrician after you move somewhere else as they will likely be out of range).

Not only that, but a 14-50 will have a 50 amp breaker (most likely) so you wont even be charging at 48amps, you would be charging at 40 amps, so would be paying $761 for the ability to charge at 40amps vs 32amps. On a model 3, you are talking about a difference of 7 miles range added an hour.

Since you asked for opinions....

If you want to be mobile, do NOT use the HPWC, drop that from your quote in its entirety. Get quotes only for a 14-50, and use the mobile connector the car comes with and purchase the 14-50 adapter from tesla for the mobile connector.

Completely ditch the idea of taking a HPWC and adding a pigtail onto it, there is no reason to do that for a new install.

 

[brkaus]

I wouldn’t even suggest a 60a breaker and 48a charging from a WC with a pigtail to 14-50. It needs to be 50a breaker, 40a charging.

 

[ICEisdead]

The electrician said something about the UMC overcharging the car on only a 14-50 connection if we didn’t remember to turn down the power every time we charged the car. Any truth to that? How is this prevented?

 

[RayK]

If you use the mobile connector with the factory 14-50 adapter, then it should only draw 32A max. There should not be any reason why you would need to turn down the current unless there is a problem with the electrical connections in the outlet or the wiring to the breaker.

edit: There's also a temperature sensor in the factory 14-50 adapter which monitors the temperature of the plug (and by association, the socket). If it detects a higher than "normal" temperature, it will automatically throttle the UMC. If the electrician says that with absolute certainty, find another electrician.

 

[ICEisdead]

If you use the mobile connector with the factory 14-50 adapter, then it should only draw 32A max. There should not be any reason why you would need to turn down the current unless there is a problem with the electrical connections in the outlet or the wiring to the breaker.

edit: There's also a temperature sensor in the factory 14-50 adapter which monitors the temperature of the plug (and by association, the socket). If it detects a higher than "normal" temperature, it will automatically throttle the UMC. If the electrician says that with absolute certainty, find another electrician.

Okay, thanks. Great info.

 

[jjrandorin]

The electrician said something about the UMC overcharging the car on only a 14-50 connection if we didn’t remember to turn down the power every time we charged the car. Any truth to that? How is this prevented?

No, there isnt any truth to the UMC overcharging the car on a 14-50 connection in that circumstance. As long as you buy the 14-50 adapter from tesla or evse so that its the official one and has the proper chip / circuit sensing tech in it, what they told you is not correct.

In fact, your electrician has now said or recommended 2 "strange" things, or perhaps it would be better to say "misleading" things.

1. Recommending you purchase a HPWC only for them to add an [unsupported by tesla currently] pigtail onto it, thereby rendering your brand new purchased HPWC an out of warranty item the second they do that (and charging you $146 for doing it.

2. Telling you that the tesla branded UMC would overcharge a tesla when used with a 14-50 outlet and [presumably] the tesla branded 14-50 connector.

The only way it would "overcharge" is if you put an extension cord (like a regular extension cord) on the UMC or something while using the wrong outlet adapter. There would be no reason to do that, you would just buy the official 14-50 adapter for the UMC that any electrician that "is knowledgeable about EVs and charging" would know about.

Either they are not as knowledgable as they appear to be, or they are specifically feeding you bull.... I would not recommend using them, personally.

 

[Sophias_dad]

I'd clearly be getting a different electrician. Even if the UMC wasn't only able to take 32 amps continuously, the car remembers the last current setting for a given location, so if you wanted (for some unknown reason) to set the current down from 32 amps to 16 amps, the next time you plugged in, it would only try to get 16 amps.

$826 for a three foot run is very high indeed. You can also save a TINY amount of money by asking for only a 40 amp circuit. TBH, I probably would just go for the 50, since the wire price difference SHOULD be only a few dollars on a three foot run, and the breaker cost will be the same. But do keep in mind that the outlet SHOULD be like $80, and the GFCI breaker will be $90-100.

Betcha he was gonna install a Leviton outlet, too.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

Don't listen to that electrician, he doesn't know half as much as he thinks he does. A good way to weed out bad electricians is to wait for the quote then ask if it includes the necessary permits.

If the answer is: "Yes! Of course!" then wow, just wow. You've found an exceptionally confident and professional electrician. Kudos to you both!
If they answer is "Sure, it's just an extra $100 to file with the city" then you found someone very honest and knowledgeable.
If the answer is "Oh hell no, that'll cost a fortune! The government is keeping me down! They're so corrupt! You don't need no stinkin' permit!" that means that they do really lousy work and they know it.

Anyway, yeah, you don't want to pigtail a 14-50 onto a wall charger. In fact, you don't even really want a 14-50 at all unless your in-laws will be parking their RV in your driveway for weeks at a time. Just get a slightly cheaper 6-50 on a 40-50A GFCI breaker and hang your portable charger on the wall.

If you really want the wall charger, just get a regular installation and ask them to give you a cover plate, wire nuts, and some instruction on how to remove the charger and safely stow the wiring when you leave.

 

[Frank99]

I just posted a "rational" breakdown of what it should cost to install a 14-50 outlet here:

Home Electrical for Dummies

An outlet for charging an EV requires (most of the time) a GFCI protected outlet - generally this is done with a GFCI circuit breaker. That'll cost you $100-$150 at Home Depot. A cheap Levition 14-50 outlet is about $10 ($20 with cover plate/box) at Home Depot. The Tesla recommended...

teslamotorsclub.com

I've been charging with my Mobile Connector on a 14-50 outlet for three years, and have had absolutely no issues. Your electrician is full of doo-doo.

You may believe that you want to carry the Mobile Connector with you for emergencies; unless you spend a lot of time in the boonies you'll never use it on the road. There are Superchargers everywhere these days, Destination chargers where there aren't Superchargers, and plenty of J1772 chargers (and more going up every day). Carry your J1772 adapter that comes with the car, use plugshare.com to find chargers on the road (and the boonies), and leave your Mobile Connector plugged in at home for daily charging.

 

[Rocky_H]

Military member with the desire to have a "portable" HPWC based on potential military moves.

That's not a reason to attach a cord to the wall connector. A wall connector can VERY easily be removed. As @jcanoe is mentioning, there are several reasons to not attach a cord to the wall connector.

 

[355rockit]

I had an electrician install the NEMA 14-50 outlet which cost $550 (short wiring run from breaker box and I supplied the outlet and box). I was initially using it with my portable connector. Later I deceided to get a wall connector. I picked up an oven NEMA 14-50 cord from Home Depot and installed per the wiring instructions for the wall connector. Easy. Just make sure your properly torque wiring connector screws. Easy to mount the wall connector. I have been using this setup for 2 years now with no issues. Adding a pigtail doesn't void the warranty. Just need to make sure the cord you use supports 50A. Please note that for NEMA 14-50 you can charge up to 40A due to need for safety buffer.

 

[ICEisdead]

All good information. Called them back asking for clarification and they said their prices allow to provide a customer satisfaction guarantee, warranty, and due to wage increases required over the past year. I wouldn't call that all complete BS, but as ya'll mentioned, it does seem high.

 

[jjrandorin]

All good information. Called them back asking for clarification and they said their prices allow to provide a customer satisfaction guarantee, warranty, and due to wage increases required over the past year. I wouldn't call that all complete BS, but as ya'll mentioned, it does seem high.

All thats fine, they are free to charge whatever works for them as far as business goes. The issue I have is them suggesting you should put a pigtail on a new HPWC for some reason, rather than using the device that comes with the car, as well as whatever BS they were talking about as to why you couldnt use the connector that comes with the car.

Those two things are fairly inexcusable to me. The pricing is what it is, I dont beat up businesses on pricing. They charge whatever they need to for their business. Its just inflated with extra stuff you dont need.

 

[Gasaraki]

Hi everyone. Military member with the desire to have a "portable" HPWC based on potential military moves. Below is my quote for a 14-50 outlet to be installed with a HPWC purchased through the electrician:

Furnish and Install new dedicated 50A circuit to power a new NEMA 14-50 receptacle installed within 3' of the panel - $826
Furnish and install Tesla Wall Connector - Cost of charger $500 + Shipping $35 + markup $50 = $615
Furnish and install a new appliance cord to plug in HPWC - $146
Total - $1,587

Seems a little high. Obviously there's a slight markup on the TWC, but they're out of stock so that might be worth the additional cost. Company seems incredibly professional and knowledgable about EVs and charging, which I do think is worth some value.

Look to hear opinions on whether this is a well-priced quote?

Wow, $826 to put a 50A breaker and run a 3 feet long cable? Get outta here. (That's what I would say to that person)

 

[Frank99]

Wow, $826 to put a 50A breaker and run a 3 feet long cable? Get outta here. (That's what I would say to that person)

So, would you like to suggest a better price? Make sure to include the cost of the outlet, the permit/inspection, and the GFCI breaker, and a rational cost for the electrician.

I personally could do my own cheap job for about $65 - use a non-GFCI breaker ($15), conduit/fittings ($15), AWG 8 wire ($10), and a cheap 10-50 outlet ($10). Add a $15 10-50 Range Cord to retrofit the HPWC. Blow off the permit/inspection, nobody will know. And it'll probably work fine for the Mobile Connector, or the HPWC dialed down to 32A. Of course, you now have an installation using an obsolete (and potentially dangerous) outlet that's no longer permitted for new installs by the NEC, only for replacement installations.

I could also do the job correctly for $350 - use a code-required GFCI breaker ($100), conduit/fittings ($15), AWG 6 wire ($20), a Bryant 9450R 14-50 outlet and box ($60), permit/inspection ($100). Add a $30 50A 14-50 Range Cord to retrofit the HPWC, and you're done. But I claim to have the skills and experience necessary to keep from turning myself into a crispy critter while doing so, and to avoid having my house turn into a pile of burned ashes afterwards. Not everyone has that.

Frankly, my best suggestion for the OP is to get three bids on installing a 14-50 outlet, requesting that they use a high-quality 14-50 receptacle, choose the middle-priced bid, and use the Mobile Connector that comes with the car along with a $45 14-50 adapter. That's the ultimate in portable charging. Second choice would be to buy a second Mobile Connector, either the standard 32A $275 Gen-2 Mobile Connector or the 40A $520 Corded Mobile Connector (with 25% faster charging!), along with the 14-50 adapter. Using the Tesla Cable Organizer, you can end up with an installation that looks almost as neat as an HPWC installation.

 

[ICEisdead]

Got a second quote. This electrician is willing to do it for $375, but that’s no GFCI breaker, #8 copper wire, a self-sourced outlet, and (likely) no permit.

I asked for #6 wire and he said it would be an additional $150 because he would have to buy additional wire and it’s very expensive right now. His argument mainly centered around the fact that a range pulls more amps than a EV charger and that a GFCI breaker and #6 wire was overkill…

 

[ICEisdead]

Where can I source a GFCI circuit breaker and 5ft of #6 wire? Can someone provide me a link to quality materials? I don’t want to do the work myself, I just want to source the materials myself so I don’t keep getting screwed by these people.

 

[Sophias_dad]

Home Depot will sell you #6 NMB by the foot. Bet Lowes does too.

Southwire (By-the-Foot) 6/3 Stranded Romex SIMpull CU NM-B W/G Wire 63950099 - The Home Depot

Wire residential indoor branch circuits for outlets, switches and other loads with Southwire Romex SIMpull Type NM-B Cable. SlikQuik jacket allows for 50% reduction in pulling force for easier installation.

www.homedepot.com

The breaker is a little harder. You need to know the panel type, which is probably listed on the door. You can also check the breakers themselves.

Home Depot stocks several different 50 amp GFCI two pole breakers, and you can probably also get them at whereever you get the good-quality 14-50 outlet.

 

[pjburkina]

Wow, $826 to put a 50A breaker and run a 3 feet long cable? Get outta here. (That's what I would say to that person)

Exactly. That’s ridiculous to the point of being insulting.