17.24.28 update - warning:changes to AP dual carriageway speed limits

[thegruf]

Received this update yesterday. Think before applying this update if the below is important to you.
(and before the righteous mob chime in - I do not habitually drive round the place like a lunatic at excessive speeds but I do like to keep up with prevailing traffic and not have to duck in and out of lorries all the time)

My commute is mostly 1 hour on dual carriageway trunk A road.

Previously on dual carriageways I could set the max speed to anything I liked to match the prevailing speed of the traffic.
Now the +5mph max limit is applied to most sections of the road even though it has a central reservation.

This has rendered AP all but useless to me now as the traffic commonly goes a bit over the limit (up to appx 80mph) in a number of sections.

I suspect this is a UK only thing as the US side of the forum is quiet on the subject.

It might well be the there is an error in this build identifying single/dual carriageways that it causing the issue, more worryingly it might be the Tesla/regulators are excessively nannying when the driver is in control and responsible for the vehicle.

Thanks (not) Tesla. Please urgently fix and revert to previous soonest.

 

[alcibiades]

Received this update yesterday. Think before applying this update if the below is important to you.
(and before the righteous mob chime in - I do not habitually drive round the place like a lunatic at excessive speeds but I do like to keep up with prevailing traffic and not have to duck in and out of lorries all the time)

My commute is mostly 1 hour on dual carriageway trunk A road.

Previously on dual carriageways I could set the max speed to anything I liked to match the prevailing speed of the traffic.
Now the +5mph max limit is applied to most sections of the road even though it has a central reservation.

This has rendered AP all but useless to me now as the traffic commonly goes a bit over the limit (up to appx 80mph) in a number of sections.

I suspect this is a UK only thing as the US side of the forum is quiet on the subject.

It might well be the there is an error in this build identifying single/dual carriageways that it causing the issue, more worryingly it might be the Tesla/regulators are excessively nannying when the driver is in control and responsible for the vehicle.

Thanks (not) Tesla. Please urgently fix and revert to previous soonest.

Alas, users in Norway and the USA have also reported that speed limits/limitations have been borked.

It's dangerous and completely bizarre. Major screwup by Tesla.

 

[thegruf]

I must have missed reports elsewhere.

It is hopefully nothing more than dual carriageways (roads with medians) being detected as roads without medians from the database.
I'll cut Tesla a tiny bit of slack for now and call it not great but potentially easily fixed.

I will sign up to the major screwup camp though if not fixed very quickly as renders AP mostly useless to me now for my daily commute -Grrrr.

 

[WannabeOwner]

I have the same annoyance with the decision that 90+ on AP should disable AP for the rest of the drive. I do sometime hit 90 when I put my foot down, whilst on AP, because of some road situation - usually someone in a hurry behind me that I would prefer not to be holding up.

Ignoring the rights and wrong of that, if I forget to disengage AP before I do that it is disabled for the rest of the drive, so I then drive manually, i.e. on my own, which has got to be less safe than if I was using me + AP.

 

[Stek1]

Just did the update yesterday. Same annoyance. Just drove 300km in the Netherlands
Most parts i cannot go above the speed limit anymore which is difficult when traffic is usually going just above the speed limit. Its also dangerous where the car quickly slows down suddenly when you have past a line from 100km/h to 80km/h and people driving close behind you are almost rear ending you.
Another thing is that the map is not up to date so it started to slow down to 70km/in de middle of the highway...

Another thing i noticed is that this version seems to have more of the sudden slow down "dont know what to do" hesitation.

 

[thegruf]

actually it gets worse, it seems to not know the speed limits on some sections of dual carriageway and will promptly slow to 45mph
(maybe it has always not known the limits on some sections but I never noticed as it didnt slow down before, we all know this annoyance on undivided roads. Effectively it now treats divided and non-divided roads the same. Bad.

I will say clearly that slowing to 45mph unexpectedly on a fast dual carriageway major road is very undesirable and has the potential to cause accidents if the driver is not alert to this new behaviour, therefore it is reasonable to descibe this as a safety issue.

Additionally there is nothing in the release notes to advertise this is a delberate change, so it looks like an error.

For now, together with new lurching outside the lane at times I have almost no confidence in AP in this build, so Tesla have effectively removed this function from my car. Disappointed.

Urgent fix required please Tesla.

I have notified Tesla technical of this, they were very receptive and understanding, and urge others to do so also to ensure there are sufficient reports for this to be prioritised.

 

[TC56]

Umm, the speed limit is the law, not a suggestion folks.

 

[WannabeOwner]

the speed limit is the law, not a suggestion

I don't have a problem with that.

But I do have a problem with:

Speed limit rigidly enforced by a device that under-reads by a few MPH. My time is precious, and if road is clear & safe I'm going to be driving at the speed limit. In practice Tesla is less optimistic than our other cars, but its still 2MPH-ish optimistic, so it needs to allow "a few MPH over"

Enforcing the speed limit when you don't know, 100%, what it is is just plain dangerous - as @thegruf said. Jumping on the brakes on a motorway because, all of a sudden, the car (wrongly) think that its 45 MPH and not 70 MPH is very dangerous. So if that is the current state of the technology it would be better to be "unrestricted" UNTIL it can be made 100% accurate.

 

[thegruf]

Umm, the speed limit is the law, not a suggestion folks.

 

[mrElbe]

Ah, the junior programmers who probably ride bicycles are at it again.

 

[thegruf]

It is a bit worrisome really.

Either Tesla did it deliberately - in which case it absolutely should have been in the release notes, or it is an error in which case their software release control/testing is clearly is below the level expected in particular for an automotive product.

Either way I am not sure Tesla come out very well, and the quicker the functionality is reinstated the better.

Perhaps there are too many personnel changes in the the s/w team, or perhaps those changes haven't worked so they are making more changes to sort it out, in any event the number of problems in the released software remains disappointingly high.

 

[cyberkryten]

Had this on A31 West last night, but having just come from a speed awareness course, figured it was some sort of spooky karma...

No issues on A419 or A34 so I assume it relates to mapping, rather than a decision to apply limits on dual carriageways

 

[WannabeOwner]

spooky karma

That's AI for you

This isn't "jump on the brakes because the gap looks a bit narrow" thing is it? I get that about once per 100 miles. I am passing a big lorry on a 2-lane carriageway, to me it looks no different to any other lorry /gap that I have passed, but all of a sudden I get red-hands-of-death, anchors thrown out of the back, all sorts of beeping ...

... when I drive on AP1 I have one hand on wheel and right foot near accelerator (not brake) so that I can override with accelerator in this situation - to prevent the car behind running into the back of me ... but of course my passengers go "WTF?" each time it happens

 

[thegruf]

The changes are so considerable I am now thinking that Tesla must have changed their map data provider.
The really interesting bit is that a couple of the map errors align exactly with my wife's TomTom errors.

Wondering if Tesla made a fundamental change?

If so could be good news for the future even if early niggles now

 

[keithw65]

Ap1 was working pretty well on A roads. Now its a shambles - as above.

 

[DJP31]

The changes are so considerable I am now thinking that Tesla must have changed their map data provider.
The really interesting bit is that a couple of the map errors align exactly with my wife's TomTom errors.

Wondering if Tesla made a fundamental change?

If so could be good news for the future even if early niggles now

Reading this confirms exactly that. TomTom in Garmin out.

Tesla uses tomtom now? | Tesla

 

[WannabeOwner]

Disappointing if an established brand like TomTom has poor quality info on where speed limits are ... particularly coupled with Tesla ability to "read" the speed limit signs.

All part of the same poor quality QA processes in Tesla IMO. Processes should be in place in Automotive and Aeronautical (safety-critical) industry sectors to consider the consequences of such changes in sufficient detail that there are no surprises.

 

[cyberkryten]

A31 West was back to normal today

Car still jumps on the anchors on the M4 between J14 and J15 (by the Borough of Swindon sign just before the B4000 goes underneath) but I usually remember and have my foot on the accelerator there.

 

[thegruf]

I thought I found some sections fixed today too.
Maybe there are now ongoing updates without actual software revisions?

 

[miimura]

I thought I found some sections fixed today too.
Maybe there are now ongoing updates without actual software revisions?

If it's a speed database problem, they certainly don't need to rev the software, they just need to fix the data.