17.26.76

[u00mem9]

I mostly agree with the first part of your statement in that bullying is unacceptable. Whether oktane has really been "bullied" in this thread is debatable, however.

But the 2nd portion of your statement above comes across as entitled. You Q4 2016 purchasers seem to believe you're the only ones who didn't get what you were promised from Tesla. That's nonsense. There were thousands of cars sold from Q4 2014 to Q3 2015 with AP1 hardware and no autosteer. October 2014 P85D purchasers waited a year for any autosteer functionality whatsoever, and what arrived in October of 2015 wasn't all that great. Only in the last 6 months has AP1 become the gold standard reference to which everything else is compared (for me, I pinpoint this moment as firmware 2.52.22 in January of 2017).

So, for an October 2014 P85D purchaser, they waited a year for any autosteer functionality, and another 15 months for something fairly solid and trustworthy. That's 27 months of AP1 software development, and half of the problem had already been implemented in hardware by Mobileye. Meanwhile, you Q4 2016 purchasers have waited 9 months and have 90% of that same functionality.

What that adds up to is that there are people who waited three times longer than you have for their paid-for feature, yet you guys are on this forum complaining way louder than they ever did. That comes across as entitled.

I knew what I was getting into when I decided to purchase my 85D, which was delivered April 2015. I waited 6 months for autosteer, and another 15 for 2.52.22. And I've seen the advances that Tesla has made during that time, including the refresh body style, AP2 hardware and software, glass roof, more powerful CPUs, bigger batteries, etc. I knew going in that my car would have bugs, missing functionality, and be surpassed in technology and capability almost immediately. My choice under those conditions was reduce all of that risk by leasing the car, and that choice is going to pay off for me. In April of 2018 I will get a new one, with all the latest stuff (whatever it may be at that point).

What surprises me is that some of you Q4 2016 purchasers who are so vocal on this forum expected something different. When I researched my purchase, it was clear to me that all of those above-mentioned items were risks that come with a revolutionary new car design, and a brand new car company that hasn't found their footing yet. Was this not clear to you? Something is different about you guys that I'm having trouble figuring out, because other Tesla buyers have had it worse, yet they aren't as vocal as you and they still love their car.

This lengthy analysis seems to completely miss the fact that Tesla already went through that painful phase and hid the fact that they were starting over from the prospective customers. It's not reasonable to expect a Q4 customer to think autopilot is going to take another 12 months when Tesla is doing everything in their power to misrepresent that fact including the very clever strategy of announcing INCREASED capabilities, and allowing the purchase of them with zero chance of meeting expected timelines.

If AP2 purchasers are happy with almost AP1 performance after 10months, I guess that's their prerogative...but take a step back and remember it's called "enhanced"... it even has dummy cameras in the B pillars lol...

I just want to hear a true believer say they now acknowledge Tesla knowingly misrepresented the situation last September. If you can't do that, anything else you have to say isn't objective in any way.

 

[ahkahn]

This lengthy analysis seems to completely miss the fact that Tesla already went through that painful phase and hid the fact that they were starting over from the prospective customers. It's not reasonable to expect a Q4 customer to think autopilot is going to take another 12 months when Tesla is doing everything in their power to misrepresent that fact including the very clever strategy of announcing INCREASED capabilities, and allowing the purchase of them with zero chance of meeting expected timelines.

If AP2 purchasers are happy with almost AP1 performance after 10months, I guess that's their prerogative...but take a step back and remember it's called "enhanced"... it even has dummy cameras in the B pillars lol...

I just want to hear a true believer say they now acknowledge Tesla knowingly misrepresented the situation last September. If you can't do that, anything else you have to say isn't objective in any way.

You were told that it was still in development when you purchased your car, right? Were you provided with any contractual commitments for milestones in regards to AP2 development? Or, was your purchased simply based on Elon's tweets?

I am just not seeing the point in the outrage on this. Development takes time, and I've never known a single developer to deliver at their target goal time. Be happy that your hardware can take you further and not be obsolete as quickly as the AP1 vehicles. And, if you're that pissed off about it, sell your Tesla, buy a Ford, and sue Tesla for the lost value minus a mileage allowance.

Life's too short to come bitch in a forum.........

 

[alcibiades]

You were told that it was still in development when you purchased your car, right? Were you provided with any contractual commitments for milestones in regards to AP2 development? Or, was your purchased simply based on Elon's tweets?

I am just not seeing the point in the outrage on this. Development takes time, and I've never known a single developer to deliver at their target goal time. Be happy that your hardware can take you further and not be obsolete as quickly as the AP1 vehicles. And, if you're that pissed off about it, sell your Tesla, buy a Ford, and sue Tesla for the lost value minus a mileage allowance.

Life's too short to come bitch in a forum.........

Meta-irony alert.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

I just want to hear a true believer say they now acknowledge Tesla knowingly misrepresented the situation last September. If you can't do that, anything else you have to say isn't objective in any way.

Honestly, nobody can do that because it didn't happen. Tesla didn't even announce AP2 hardware until late October.

 

[croman]

Where my EAP/FSD? We all talk about EAP like it was only supposed to be parity with AP1. Its not. While the AP1 crowd waited a year before autosteer, they got pretty much all their features within a year. Yes, they were wonky but we don't even have a SINGLE feature we purchased. A few of us HW2 folks bought only AP1 software. They're approaching getting what they paid for. We are still waiting. Its been 9 months and not one feature. How's that for complaining? At least what I'm saying is accurate.

 

[BBB4000]

There's a lot of positive feedback for highway driving. What is the verdict on local roads? Is it better than the previous versions? Is it better than AP1?

 

[croman]

There's a lot of positive feedback for highway driving. What is the verdict on local roads? Is it better than the previous versions? Is it better than AP1?

Not in my experience. It still crosses double yellows (it actually seems to want to drive on the double yellow) and its decision making is very abrupt. It accelerates and turns the wheel strongly so in local situations you've gotta be on your toes! It does handle curves better and it seems to lane keep better with proper markings. If the lane markings are faded or the road is extra wide it will hunt around and you'll look like you are a drunk driver.

 

[SomeJoe7777]

Where my EAP/FSD? We all talk about EAP like it was only supposed to be parity with AP1. Its not. While the AP1 crowd waited a year before autosteer, they got pretty much all their features within a year. Yes, they were wonky but we don't even have a SINGLE feature we purchased. A few of us HW2 folks bought only AP1 software. They're approaching getting what they paid for. We are still waiting. Its been 9 months and not one feature. How's that for complaining? At least what I'm saying is accurate.

If we go by "promised features", then AP1 buyers are still waiting. We were promised summon that would pick us up at our front door on private property, "on-ramp to off-ramp" hands-free driving, and even as recently as September of 2016 were promised automatic exit ramps and highway interchanges with 8.0. We're still waiting on all those items. (Which, let's be realistic, will never happen on AP1 hardware).

Again, your post comes across as entitled. You are not the only group of Tesla buyers who aren't getting the promised functionality. Extend this outside the AP suite and you have even more examples. P85D owners are still waiting on 691 HP. P90D owners have had performance removed and then somewhat, but not all the way reinstated.

You are not in a unique boat.

 

[croman]

If we go by "promised features", then AP1 buyers are still waiting. We were promised summon that would pick us up at our front door on private property, "on-ramp to off-ramp" hands-free driving, and even as recently as September of 2016 were promised automatic exit ramps and highway interchanges with 8.0. We're still waiting on all those items. (Which, let's be realistic, will never happen on AP1 hardware).

Again, your post comes across as entitled. You are not the only group of Tesla buyers who aren't getting the promised functionality. Extend this outside the AP suite and you have even more examples. P85D owners are still waiting on 691 HP. P90D owners have had performance removed and then somewhat, but not all the way reinstated.

You are not in a unique boat.

Your post is the epitome of entitled and insensitive. Your car does 99% of what AP1 promised (it will actually meet you at your door but only if your door is a straight line from where the car can be summoned (LOL) (on-ramp/off-ramp coming "soon") but you complain about AP2 owners that have 0% of their promised features.

If I am entitled sounding because I want what I paid for, it sounds like we're in the same boat but one of us is attacking the other and being a hypocrite. Guess who?

 

[Mark Z]

After a longer drive yesterday on the 91 and 15, I would call 17.26.76 the Rodeo version. It's the first release to do bucking bronco style turns and acceleration/deacceleration. Everything is instantaneous with jerky motion as the car ahead slows and speeds up or lane lines change. This isn't progress, it's now a discount amusement ride. What was Disneyland quality has dropped to a carnival. At this rate, I expect a future version to feel like a child's rocket ride at the supermarket.

 

[SomeJoe7777]

Your post is the epitome of entitled and insensitive. Your car does 99% of what AP1 promised (it will actually meet you at your door but only if your door is a straight line from where the car can be summoned (LOL) (on-ramp/off-ramp coming "soon") but you complain about AP2 owners that have 0% of their promised features.

If I am entitled sounding because I want what I paid for, it sounds like we're in the same boat but one of us is attacking the other and being a hypocrite. Guess who?

Insensitive? It's chock full of facts. I listed several examples of what Tesla promised that we don't have.

I don't think AP1 does 99% of what was promised. Maybe 90%. And remember, that was after a 27 month wait.

And your claim that you have 0% of what you paid for is nonsense. EAP is exactly that -- enhanced autopilot. It's supposed to be the functionality of the existing autopilot plus additional features. As a whole, you have many autopilot features with many more to come. I'll refrain from listing a percentage, but your feature set is probably more than halfway complete. In 9 months. That's ahead of the AP1 development curve.

If I were in your shoes, I would be annoyed at the wait, but hopeful of the promise. Your AP2 hardware actually has the capability to deliver on the promises. At some point, you are actually going to have everything you paid for, while AP1 owners never will.

 

[croman]

Insensitive? It's chock full of facts. I listed several examples of what Tesla promised that we don't have.

I don't think AP1 does 99% of what was promised. Maybe 90%. And remember, that was after a 27 month wait.

And your claim that you have 0% of what you paid for is nonsense. EAP is exactly that -- enhanced autopilot. It's supposed to be the functionality of the existing autopilot plus additional features. As a whole, you have many autopilot features with many more to come. I'll refrain from listing a percentage, but your feature set is probably more than halfway complete. In 9 months. That's ahead of the AP1 development curve.

If I were in your shoes, I would be annoyed at the wait, but hopeful of the promise. Your AP2 hardware actually has the capability to deliver on the promises. At some point, you are actually going to have everything you paid for, while AP1 owners never will.

EAP is not merely a better AP1. It is supposed to do the following:

1. Automatically change lanes without driver input

2. Transition from one freeway to another based on navigation

3. Automatically park near a parking spot

It does none of those (though it could, I suppose, automatically park but the limits on which parking spots are acceptable are so high that few spots qualify or are allowed).

That being said, I don't disagree that AP1 owners were slightly hosed, but I do disagree that an EAP owner who points out that nothing enhanced has been delivered isn't "entitled" -- they are merely noticing the time fly by without any of the enhancements that HW2 was supposed to deliver.

So perhaps our opinions actually match we just aren't communicating them effectively.

 

[brkaus]

Same for me. Started today.

Interesting. It's one set of speed limit signs that now change exactly as passing. Another set a few miles away are missed by at least 1/2 mile.

Wonder if they are consolidating all the uploaded data somehow.

 

[alcibiades]

Interesting. It's one set of speed limit signs that now change exactly as passing. Another set a few miles away are missed by at least 1/2 mile.

Wonder if they are consolidating all the uploaded data somehow.

It's a result of the switch from Garmin to TomTom. In some places one was more accurate than the other, so you will see these inconsistencies.

 

[NerdUno]

EAP is not merely a better AP1. It is supposed to do the following:

1. Automatically change lanes without driver input

2. Transition from one freeway to another based on navigation

3. Automatically park near a parking spot

It does none of those (though it could, I suppose, automatically park but the limits on which parking spots are acceptable are so high that few spots qualify or are allowed).

That being said, I don't disagree that AP1 owners were slightly hosed, but I do disagree that an EAP owner who points out that nothing enhanced has been delivered isn't "entitled" -- they are merely noticing the time fly by without any of the enhancements that HW2 was supposed to deliver.

So perhaps our opinions actually match we just aren't communicating them effectively.

I'm not worried. We're less than 2 weeks away from FSD according to Elon. I believe everything he says. Life is good.

 

[croman]

It's a result of the switch from Garmin to TomTom. In some places one was more accurate than the other, so you will see these inconsistencies.

I don't know if that is the whole picture. I saw my car go to 25mph in a 35 zone and when I passed a 40mph sign, it immediately switched to 40mph (and let me go beyond the +5). I think as long as its on GPS, it is geofenced to +5 but if it sign reads, it doesn't have that +5 limitation. I've only had this fw for less than a week so more data is needed but that is my current theory. It is sign reading but not particularly consistently.

 

[alcibiades]

I don't know if that is the whole picture. I saw my car go to 25mph in a 35 zone and when I passed a 40mph sign, it immediately switched to 40mph (and let me go beyond the +5). I think as long as its on GPS, it is geofenced to +5 but if it sign reads, it doesn't have that +5 limitation. I've only had this fw for less than a week so more data is needed but that is my current theory. It is sign reading but not particularly consistently.

I'm shaving with Occam's razor on this.

TomTom both has different geo-fences and different road-type categorizations than Garmin. This is true and can explain all the weirdness. I know absence of evidence isn't proof of absence, but there is nothing showing that HW2 reads signs nor is there any added explanatory value to thinking it does. I mean, I'd like it to be true that my HW2 car is getting more capable, but hope isn't enough.

I don't know if this is something resident awesome poster @verygreen can lend insight on or not.

 

[MarcusMaximus]

Where my EAP/FSD? We all talk about EAP like it was only supposed to be parity with AP1. Its not. While the AP1 crowd waited a year before autosteer, they got pretty much all their features within a year. Yes, they were wonky but we don't even have a SINGLE feature we purchased. A few of us HW2 folks bought only AP1 software. They're approaching getting what they paid for. We are still waiting. Its been 9 months and not one feature. How's that for complaining? At least what I'm saying is accurate.

Of course, 9 months < 1 year. To match AP1's development timeline, we have another 3 months by which to get some/most of the 'E' features.

Nitpick aside, I'll agree with what you said below. We're largely on the same page. Just with different attitudes about the situation(on my side, annoyed that it's delayed, but excited at the pace of improvement and, based on that, hopeful for the future)

 

[oktane]

By the way, I think the bullying of @oktane on this thread is really reprehensible. Those of us who bought EAP Teslas in 4Q 2016 were lied to and cheated, and the problem won't be dismissed by nonsensical tweets about "silky smoothness" from Mr. Musk or ad hominem attacks here.

Thank you for your support. Sorry I didn't see your post earlier.

 

[oktane]

I mostly agree with the first part of your statement in that bullying is unacceptable. Whether oktane has really been "bullied" in this thread is debatable, however.

You Q4 2016 purchasers seem to believe you're the only ones who didn't get what you were promised from Tesla. That's nonsense. There were thousands of cars sold from Q4 2014 to Q3 2015 with AP1 hardware and no autosteer.

What surprises me is that some of you Q4 2016 purchasers who are so vocal on this forum expected something different. When I researched my purchase, it was clear to me that all of those above-mentioned items were risks that come with a revolutionary new car design, and a brand new car company that hasn't found their footing yet. Was this not clear to you? Something is different about you guys that I'm having trouble figuring out, because other Tesla buyers have had it worse, yet they aren't as vocal as you and they still love their car.

I think the difference here is you were an early adopter. I didn't buy until I knew AP was working well. I test drove AP1 cars extensively and was impressed. There was no way for me to reasonably conclude or know that AP2 would be starting again from zero, rather than building on an already functioning (great) product.

I'm not privy to the internal struggles at Tesla. Tesla is guilty of fraud - take me on a test drive with an AP1 car and sell me a car with "enhanced AP and FSD", and show me videos of the car driving through CITY STREETS AND PARKING LOTS unassisted.

I don't think Tesla went through such great lengths to DEFRAUD you when you purchased AP1.