17.7.2 - Why did Tesla release Local Autosteer vs...

[Wolverinegeoff]

Wow, talk about putting your neck on the chopping block. Realize there's a "Disagree"-button in the bottom right corner of your post? And that you're arguing with a dude whose nick is disagree?

Excellent point! To be fair, I'm merely trying to avoid writing reports for work right now, so any discussion is good discussion! People here seem to be able to have civilized disagreements.... Sometimes....?

 

[theslimshadyist]

With all the recent negative attention on safety and delays in releasing EAP functionality, I've been questioning the rationale at Tesla for choosing to release a dangerous and buggy version of Autosteer for local roads in Release 17.7.2 instead of these alternatives:
- Increasing TACC speed beyond 70 MPH
- Increasing Autosteer speed on Freeways/Interstates beyond 50 MPH
- Adding Autosteer on divided roads and highways (not just freeways)
- Adding Auto-wipers
- Adding Auto-headlights
- Adding Summons

The addition of Parallel Autopark in 17.7.2 was appreciated but personally, I would have preferred extending Autosteer on divided roads and highways well before local roads. Isn't going from Freeways -> Divided Highways -> Local roads seem to be to be the more obvious (and safer) path for extending Autosteer functionality?

More than likely for fleet learning, hence the 35mph limitation.

 

[3Victoria]

I don't know what you're going on about. Some guy asked me to ask a lawyer. So I did and reported what I was told.

And my guess is that the small amount of people actually adds up to at least $50 million.

How much did you pay for your legal opinion?

 

[disagree]

How much did you pay for your legal opinion?

It was a brief discussion and it was a favor. But it would have cost you ~$850/h.

 

[Wolverinegeoff]

It was a brief discussion and it was a favor. But it would have cost you ~$850/h.

$850/hr? I'm in the wrong field. Until the robot lawyers come....

 

[P100DHG.]

No AP2 so far has been really really really bad and honestly I sold my p85 at a huge loss to buy this all new 8 camera vehicle and paid the extra 4K to have he fsd feature in it and my tacc isn't usable on the 405 freeway.... I don't know how anyone can think that its acceptable to do this to people. It's been 4 months and every single bridge or power line or overhead sign makes my car go from 75 to 55 immediately.

It's not cool at all and it's making me who is a diehard tesla guy want to give it back. I don't want to wait an additional 6 months and be a beta tester for them, that wasn't the "deal". I'm cool with ap1 parity but I have the latest software and no way are we just a month away from it. They can't stop the squiggly lines when you slow down let alone show 3 lanes of traffic and correctly show which type of vehicle is passing you.

Pretty lame

75 mph on the 405! What's your secret? I need to know!

Seriously though the next update has to be a biggy. I just hope it includes the basics like auto dimming headlights and wipers. I did notice today it was only showing one lane. TACC works pretty well for me but autosteer is a drunk. The next update will be welcomed by all as it will give us more stuff to bitch about

 

[NerdUno]

For your reading entertainment...

Tesla Drivers Are Paying Big Bucks to Test Flawed Self-Driving Software

 

[3Victoria]

It was a brief discussion and it was a favor. But it would have cost you ~$850/h.

Hmmm, so its likely worth about what you paid for it.

 

[Burnt Toast]

I drove 100km on AP2 17.5.xx and it was largely flawless. It worked through tunnels, it did slow down a couple of times for overhead signs, but it was fine when cars cut in front of me. I was suprised as I read so much doom and gloom here.

 

[njxman]

I drove 100km on AP2 17.5.xx and it was largely flawless. It worked through tunnels, it did slow down a couple of times for overhead signs, but it was fine when cars cut in front of me. I was suprised as I read so much doom and gloom here.

I would venture to say that the "doom and gloom" entered the equation with the introduction of local road Autosteer in this release.

 

[Swift]

Hmmm, so its likely worth about what you paid for it.

Yes and it was accurate.

 

[Deans]

So what's your plan then? An individual lawsuit that will cost you signicantly more than the $5k plunked down for EAP, or trying to get people to join a class action lawsuit? I'd imagine the outcome of a lawsuit will probably just delay features further on their Teslas and the odds of winning are 50/50 at best, since the language on the site does appear ambiguous and relates to software upgrades rather than hardware. The number of people who paid for EAP in that timeframe is so minuscule in the scheme of things, I don't think any decent lawyer would touch it.

I don't think a lawsuit would be limited to $5k per car. Some people would not have bought the car if they knew EAP was not ready. This puts the value at the cost of buy back, or $15k-$20k per car. Also, I think Tesla would have to pay the plantiffs legal fees, if Tesla lost a class action. There might be punitive damages as well.

 

[Wolverinegeoff]

I don't think a lawsuit would be limited to $5k per car. Some people would not have bought the car if they knew EAP was not ready. This puts the value at the cost of buy back, or $15k-$20k per car. Also, I think Tesla would have to pay the plantiffs legal fees, if Tesla lost a class action. There might be punitive damages as well.

Definitely possible! Just doubtful to be that big based on "late" software rather than promising a feature that was never delivered or a true bait and switch. I'm pretty sure legally they are safe with the language they used. I'm sure they run that stuff by their fancy lawyers, no?

 

[Burnt Toast]

I would venture to say that the "doom and gloom" entered the equation with the introduction of local road Autosteer in this release.

Nah, people have been poo pooing it since it was implemented. I've got to say that it was very good throughout my whole journey, it felt safe apart from two occasions. One during roadwork where the lane markings went straight into a barrier and I had to grab the wheel (but the car was already correcting it by the time I grabbed it) and once in a tunnel, where the car got confused and slowed down from 80kmh to about 50kmh for no apparent reason. Other than that it was flawless.

 

[stefan.bc]

where the car got confused and slowed down from 80kmh to about 50kmh for no apparent reason

Imagine that happening to you 3 times in 20 minutes. Would you still say it was almost flawless?

 

[Burnt Toast]

Imagine that happening to you 3 times in 20 minutes. Would you still say it was almost flawless.

No, but for me it only happened once in 3 hours of driving. I do feel that the car might be learning on a machine level too. It would activate autopilot in a tunnel the other day. It did yesterday.

 

[stefan.bc]

No, but for me it only happened once in 3 hours of driving. I do feel that the car might be learning on a machine level too. It would activate autopilot in a tunnel the other day. It did yesterday.

Would you still use the TACC after that, for the rest of your trip? Fast fwd 1 week later and same thing happend twice, 20 minutes in your trip, would you consider the AP safe? If you are lucky enough to live into an area where AP2/TACC works as expected I would consider it safe as well.
For systems like this TESLA should test the worst case scenarios before releasing to the public even if in BETA. They didn't.

Maybe it's my car's sensors that are not properly installed. Still, Tesla's fault.

 

[P100DHG.]

Do the cars learn individually? Or as a fleet?

How do they get the data they've learned/ created to tesla?

Is it a constant flow of data or is a data dump at the end of the day or at night or once a month?

Would or should there be a notice improvement day to day?

 

[182RG]

Do the cars learn individually? Or as a fleet?

How do they get the data they've learned/ created to tesla?

Is it a constant flow of data or is a data dump at the end of the day or at night or once a month?

Would or should there be a notice improvement day to day?

Not divulged, not divulged, not divulged, and not divulged.

 

[bealloil]

Just imagine you just bought a $140,000 condo only to find the indoor plumbing and electric service was still in beta and you'd need to use the porta-potty down the street for the next six months. If only you had read the builder's tweets.

I agree. When I took delivery of my P100D on 12/14/16 I was told that the auto steer system would be complete by 12/31/16. Can't believe I paid for software/firmware that doesn't exist. I'm a former Tesla fan.