mrElbe
Active Member
I noticed this too - I charged up on Tuesday night after getting my car. Wednesday I drove about 80 kms, and it was -17. I did also spend additional time futzing around in the car showing it off to friends. Today I drove about 40km and it was telling me to charge soon since if it gets any colder the battery won't have much range - but by this time it was a balmy -9. I was at the Lawrence store to pick up mats so I plugged into the Supercharger for a bit, although I don't like too far away so I wouldn't have had any issues getting home.
Doug_G
Lead Moderator
Totally normal. I discovered the worst-case scenario while Xmas shopping two years ago. Temperature was -20C. We drove for 15 minutes, parked for an hour or two, repeat all day. Used about 70% of the battery pack with relatively little mileage.
The reason this is a worst-case scenario is the pack and cabin heater. Together they can consume 11-12 kW full power. If you drive a short distance with them going full blast, you can get 2X to 4X normal power consumption. Then you stop for a couple of hours and cold-soak the car again. Repeat all day and it's easy to see how it would burn off a lot of power.
This is why I don't recommend the 60 for Canada.
The reason this is a worst-case scenario is the pack and cabin heater. Together they can consume 11-12 kW full power. If you drive a short distance with them going full blast, you can get 2X to 4X normal power consumption. Then you stop for a couple of hours and cold-soak the car again. Repeat all day and it's easy to see how it would burn off a lot of power.
This is why I don't recommend the 60 for Canada.
With this being my first winter with my S85, I am surprised how different the summer and winter kwh/km differ.
Thanks for the good explanation Doug.
However, it still is a surprise when I drive 100km in a day and use up 300km worth of range.
This has been a pretty mild winter for me. I can't imagine the range loss that owners experienced last winter when it was really cold most of the time.
Looking forward to Spring. :smile:
Thanks for the good explanation Doug.
However, it still is a surprise when I drive 100km in a day and use up 300km worth of range.
This has been a pretty mild winter for me. I can't imagine the range loss that owners experienced last winter when it was really cold most of the time.
Looking forward to Spring. :smile:
mnx
2013 P85
For fun I got under 199Wh/km on the 10km average energy chart the other night in -19C temps...
I was on backroads driving 70-80km/h and I set the fan to 1 and the temp to LO. (blowing in cold outside air, keeps everything defogged and uses no heater).
But yeah I've also seen 350-400Wh/km averages over a day this past week!
I was on backroads driving 70-80km/h and I set the fan to 1 and the temp to LO. (blowing in cold outside air, keeps everything defogged and uses no heater).
But yeah I've also seen 350-400Wh/km averages over a day this past week!
Doug_G
Lead Moderator
I recently saw consumption in the very high 700 kW range - short trip in extreme cold with limited preheating (unexpected excursion!).
You mean: 90% of the population of Canada.
(Not meaning to gloat, but it's +7 C right now. Hello from the west coast!)
So in -15 degrees Celsius will this car comfortably do 150 kms on a charge including stop and go traffic long Highway 401 etc. with the heater on at 24°?
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Canuck
Well-Known Member
+9 here which is 2 degrees above the average for January of +7. In fact, we have one the best climates for the longevity of Leaf's batteries, which do not have thermal management.
- - - Updated - - -
A lot depends on whether the car is "cold soaked" or if it has been pre-warmed before you leave.
Doug_G
Lead Moderator
We'll make an exception for the left-coasties! :biggrin:
Range in winter really depends on some other factors. If you thoroughly preheat the car using the remote app while sheltered in a somewhat warmer-than-ambient garage, then leave with a 100% charge, you can drive 300 km with a good safety margin at -20C, as long as you keep your speed under control. I've done it.
If your car is cold soaked and you jump in and start driving, you'll get a lot less.
Doug_G
Lead Moderator
Leaf neither heats nor cools their batteries - it's all passive. You can go more than 60 km on a cold day if you don't use the cabin heat. A guy I know commutes to work year round with a LEAF, and in the winter he has to go without heat unless he goes in early enough to guarantee access to the one charger available at his office parking lot.
That is true of the 2011 LEAF, but not 2012 and later.
My Nissan Leaf Forum View topic - 2012 Leaf information posted by Nissan
Note that it's only for really low temperatures: -4 F / -20 C apparently.
(Former owner of a 2011 LEAF
)Oh, and btw, the range is not hugely affected at temperatures around zero, UNLESS you run the cabin heater. If you run the heater say goodbye to 10-20% of the energy in the battery. At -20... yeah, that's gonna hurt.
Doug_G
Lead Moderator
abasile
Conscientious investor
Isn't it true that the Model S can be placed in "range mode" to reduce the amount of battery energy used to heat the pack? I think I recall hearing that there is a way to essentially tell the car to tolerate a lower pack temperature, that is, lower the temperature threshold at which the battery gets heated. If so, this might be the preferred way to operate the car on cold days when making short trips.
With no cabin heater usage, the LEAF is reported to lose about 1% of its range for every four degrees Fahrenheit that the battery pack temperature is below 70. (See My Nissan Leaf Forum View topic - Range Chart) So, at freezing, you'd expect 10% less range. Personally, from my experience and non-scientific measurements, I think it's a bit worse than that, but probably no more than a 20% drop at freezing.
With no cabin heater usage, the LEAF is reported to lose about 1% of its range for every four degrees Fahrenheit that the battery pack temperature is below 70. (See My Nissan Leaf Forum View topic - Range Chart) So, at freezing, you'd expect 10% less range. Personally, from my experience and non-scientific measurements, I think it's a bit worse than that, but probably no more than a 20% drop at freezing.
Cool!
I had the first one in B.C.
Adding the heat pump in 2012 made a big difference, apparently. The climate here in Victoria is ideal for the battery - I certainly didn't see any degradation in 2.5 years of use - but it still gets cool enough, and more to the point humid enough, that range was seriously impacted in poor weather. We complain about it with the Model S, but with the LEAF you have so much less buffer that it's a real issue. In rain and zero degrees the car could barely make it to the ferry terminal and back (65 km) - your choice was range and no visibility, or heater on to run the defrost.
Thanks for the comments. The Leaf is very interesting and we might get one for short range use. I should look into their on-line groups. Nissan and Carlos Ghosn deserves massive credit for their courage and perseverance. That price point is very important for our collective success in this adventure of change ......
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