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-17 degrees plus stop and go driving ~50% of rated km today

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Isn't it true that the Model S can be placed in "range mode" to reduce the amount of battery energy used to heat the pack?

It's supposed to limit HVAC power. I don't find it that useful. If the car is preheated it makes no difference that I can see. If you accidentally leave it on during preheating on AC power, then preheating is limited, so it's actually counterproductive. You end up with a colder cabin and battery pack than if you had turned it off. I leave Range Mode switched off on long trips as a result.

I would only use Range Mode if the car hadn't been preheated, and I was concerned about range. But I always preheat for long trips, and I'm not worried about range in the city.

With no cabin heater usage, the LEAF is reported to lose about 1% of its range for every four degrees Fahrenheit that the battery pack temperature is below 70. (See My Nissan Leaf Forum View topic - Range Chart) So, at freezing, you'd expect 10% less range. Personally, from my experience and non-scientific measurements, I think it's a bit worse than that, but probably no more than a 20% drop at freezing.

Model S is definitely better than that in my experience. You have to get down to almost -20C to get 20% range reduction (assuming preheated).
 
I would only use Range Mode if the car hadn't been preheated, and I was concerned about range. But I always preheat for long trips, and I'm not worried about range in the city.
For daily, short drives in the winter, I could see us leaving Range Mode on just to avoid wasting energy heating the battery over and over again. In this respect I've gotten spoiled with the LEAF. Our longer drives aren't done every day, and sometimes our LEAF goes for 2-3 days without being plugged in, with only small drops in its charge level as we drive around our small town.

Cabin temperature is not usually a concern for us even in winter, thanks to the abundant solar radiation at our lower latitude and high altitude. An alternative could be to take advantage of the LEAF for short drives, but then again, I'd rather have my family in the safer car (Tesla).
 
I am getting close to ordering the D. Deciding on colours and whether to do 20" aftermarket rims and tires instead of 21s. I'm a very busy real estate agent. My home is 2 Kms from my office. There is no 240 to plug into at my office. So when I go on appointments I have no luxury of leaving the office from a plugged in car. Yesterday, I went on 3 back to back appointments. Distance travelled was 120 kms. The recent low temps and threads such as these have me concerned. Would I have made it yesterday?

I need your help to know if this car will work for me.
 
looking at the P85D. Im concerned because some have said 50% range reduction.
in this climate. Is this true if I drive off with a cold battery from my office?

I think I drove a little over 100km the other day (across many trips). I started with 360km in the battery and finished the day with 180km or so. SO yeah if can be close to 50% if you have several shorter jaunts during the day, and it's really cold. I didn't try to conserve energy whatsoever during the day, I had the heat cranked, range mode for HVAC turned off etc. You'll be fine IMO.
 
looking at the P85D. Im concerned because some have said 50% range reduction.
in this climate. Is this true if I drive off with a cold battery from my office?

There is nothing specific to the P85D here. The battery is the same, the heating cost is the same. A figure of 50% is completely bogus - it's like trying to say what percentage of someone's salary they spent on, say, a $5000 purchase. 20%? 10%? 5%? It depends on their salary. My point is that the heating cost is a fixed overhead value, not a percentage. Think in terms of kWh if you really want to know the answer to your question. e.g. if it takes 4 kWh (roughly 20 km of "range") to heat the battery up each time, subtract that from your charge and figure the rest from there.

I could go on three widely-spaced-in-time trips of 2 km each and consume 4 kWh for heating each time for a total of 13 kWh consumed (1 kWh to actually move the car), or I could go on one trip of 45 km (4 kWh of heating and 9 kWh to move the car).
 
Not to praise the 60 over the 85 but I noticed higher consumption during cold days when I had the P85 loaner last week. It takes forever to heat up the 85 battery vs my 60. It's true that I don't have remote access to the loaner to preheat it, but you have no idea how often I forget to preheat my own car.
I wish I had the time to be able to compare the two with all other factors are the same.
 
Hey gang,

My experience lines up with what has been discussed here. Yesterday is a great example. Temp ranged from about -15 in Port Perry during the day to -10 in Toronto when I drove there, and then -20 by the time I drove home later that night.

Car was charged to about 360km rated range, but was NOT pre-heated, only plugged in my garage, so the starting battery / car temp was maybe -2 to -3.

First trip was to visit my accountant. 30km there, park for an hour in the cold, 30km back.
Second trip was my wife taking the car about 5km, park for 2 hours in the cold, 5km home.
Third trip was me taking the car into Toronto, so 75km there, park for 5 hours, 75km home.

Total driving: 220km
Starting Rated Range: 360
Ending Rated Range: 40
Rated Range Used: 320
Ratio of Rated to Actual: 1.64

Now here's the fun part: I left the car in normal mode for my drive to Toronto, and the battery was cold to start. Even still, I managed to show an average 248 Wh/km for my 75km drive, and this was in FREAKING COLD weather.

The drive home, after 5 hours of cold soaking as the evening temperature fell was a little worse, and I knew I had range to spare but wanted to see how range mode would work. So I turned on range mode and started watching the energy graph over the 10km average. I left the car this way for about half my drive, and I did feel cold (mostly my feet), but my consumption was only running at about 220 Wh/km during this portion of the drive. Quite impressive!

Anyway, I agree with Doug that range mode is not a good idea unless you are tight on range with a cold battery and have no alternative. Any minor amount of planning and you'll pre-heat the car, and then you won't run the risk of forgetting to turn off range mode later.

It's a nice feature to have just in case you ever need it, and it DOES definitely help reduce power consumption in super cold weather.
 
In extreme cold the best thing you can do is plug the car in when parked and have it charge. Not so much for range, but to generate heat to keep the pack warm. Even 120v block heater outlets will help.
 
It will definitely help, yes, but 110V outlets are only capable of ~1.5 kW. At full power the pack heater takes 6 kW. A 110V outlet cannot raise the pack above freezing if it's -20C. It will help of course.

but ... if you plug it in to 110v and begin charging right away at the end of a drive wouldn't it be able to charge and keep it warm, however slowly, because your battery is already warm or will the heat loss at -20C be too great for the hvac used for the battery to maintain the temp?
 
but ... if you plug it in to 110v and begin charging right away at the end of a drive wouldn't it be able to charge and keep it warm, however slowly, because your battery is already warm or will the heat loss at -20C be too great for the hvac used for the battery to maintain the temp?

At the end of a long drive at -20C your battery pack isn't exactly toasty. I've had the "plug me in I'm cold" warning message pop when stopping after driving on the highway two hours. There's a LOT of exposed area on the bottom of the pack, and air rushing past it at highway speed. There isn't any thermal insulation.

So yes you'll probably get a little bit of charging at first, then the battery pack will cool down and all the power will go into heating. Below a certain threshold temperature (not exactly sure when but below -15C) you don't get any charging at all with 110V. (Early firmware releases would actually lose range! Tesla fixed that.)
 
At the end of a long drive at -20C your battery pack isn't exactly toasty. I've had the "plug me in I'm cold" warning message pop when stopping after driving on the highway two hours. There's a LOT of exposed area on the bottom of the pack, and air rushing past it at highway speed. There isn't any thermal insulation.

So yes you'll probably get a little bit of charging at first, then the battery pack will cool down and all the power will go into heating. Below a certain threshold temperature (not exactly sure when but below -15C) you don't get any charging at all with 110V. (Early firmware releases would actually lose range! Tesla fixed that.)

makes sense ... I've seen the "plug me in now" message before after a long drive in the cold but I always put it down to a combo of being cold and having a low SOC, but then I guess that is the scenario we are talking about here anyways.
 
I find a general rule of thumb is to make sure you have about double the range needed for your trip in really cold weather.
So, if you have to go 200 km, make sure you top off your battery to its fullest before you leave, don't go excessively fast, keep the heat not too hot, don't "gun' the accelerator because it feels good, and keep the seat heater on!
 
It will definitely help, yes, but 110V outlets are only capable of ~1.5 kW. At full power the pack heater takes 6 kW. A 110V outlet cannot raise the pack above freezing if it's -20C. It will help of course.

I've spent the last month and a half dealing with nothing except a 110V outlet while I squat at a friends place (while my house build finished) combine this with outside parking and driving anywhere has been a challenge. A couple nights this past week I've been parking at city hall and leaving the car there for 3-4 hours. :/