18" OEM Tire replacement choices?

[SammichLover]

Are you saying that if you drive hard, the 320 rated tire could last as long as the 500 rated tire?? I don't think so. I think if you drive hard, any tire will wear faster and the life will still be approximately proportional to the TW rating.

Nope. You can see this very easily in the extreme case of when you track a vehicle and drive hard. Those 500+ TW tires will shred extremely fast compared to a low TW tire intended for such an environment. They can't hold the Gs and as they slide they are like cheese on a grater. If you were also heating the cheese to Velveta consistency.

People around here have photos of the MXM4 getting absolutely destroyed in a single day where as say a set of 140 TW Pilot Sport Cup tires will last you several days.

There's more to it than simply the TW number to figure out how fast a tire will wear in some given situation.

 

[miimura]

Nope. You can see this very easily in the extreme case of when you track a vehicle and drive hard. Those 500+ TW tires will shred extremely fast compared to a low TW tire intended for such an environment. They can't hold the Gs and as they slide they are like cheese on a grater. If you were also heating the cheese to Velveta consistency.

People around here have photos of the MXM4 getting absolutely destroyed in a single day where as say a set of 140 TW Pilot Sport Cup tires will last you several days.

Anybody who uses OEM "Grand Touring All Season" class tires on the track is an idiot. Your point is not relevant to the thread, which is discussing which tires to use on the street.

 

[SammichLover]

Anybody who uses OEM tires on the track is an idiot. Your point is not relevant to the thread, which is discussing which tires to use on the street.

The same principle applies. That's just an extreme example where it is very easy to see.

Typically the higher TW tire will slide more under the same lateral force (<edit> other variables being the same), and once you start sliding wear is very fast.

 

[miimura]

The same principle applies. That's just an extreme example where it is very easy to see.

Typically the higher TW tire will slide more under the same lateral force (<edit> other variables being the same), and once you start sliding wear is very fast.

Duh.

Let me say it another way. Anyone who drives hard and regularly approaches the traction limit of their tires should be driving on a Performance class tire not a Touring class tire. So, to the extent that Performance class tires are below TW 400 and Touring are above TW 400, I agree with you.

 

[SammichLover]

Duh.

LOL

Let me say it another way. Anyone who drives hard and regularly approaches the traction limit of their tires should be driving on a Performance class tire not a Touring class tire. So, to the extent that Performance class tires are below TW 400 and Touring are above TW 400, I agree with you.

In other words, your assumption was a very bad one. Further, if someone is seeing wear far faster than what the tire TW suggests that’s exactly the kind of situation where heading -down- in TW may help.

Assuming there isn’t other issues such as misalignment or design inherent issues (such as with the Model X’s weight + unchangeable rear camber that is hard on the inside edge of rear tires).

 

[insaneoctane]

These are just some of the considerations:

• Cost (initial or cost/mile)
• Dry Grip
• Wet Grip
• Snow/Ice Grip
• Tread Life
• Rolling Resistance
• Noise

I *am* happy with

1. low rolling resistance
2. wet/dry performance is acceptable
3. cost is marginally acceptable

I'm NOT happy with the Primacy MXM4's for

1. I think they are noisy (with acoustic foam, really!?)
2. Too narrow / no rim rash protection
3. Lower side of acceptable mileage/treadlife (I'll get ~36K out of mine)

In Southern Cal, I don't care about snow/ice performance.

Everything I've looked at indicates I will need a low rolling resistant tire (I'm enjoying a 227 Wh/mi avg over 31K miles currently). I know I'll have to give some of that up if I go with a wider (245 or 255) to gain some rim rash protection. 5% to 10% is the most I'm willing to give up for this. Tirerack has 245 MXM4 for $176, but they likely do NOT have the acoustic foam. I don't know how much that really matters since I think the MXM4's aren't particularly quiet anyway. I think I'd be willing to go to a 550 to 700 tread rating at the cost of some performance if I could extend the tread life beyond 36K miles. Looking for the right replacement isn't easy!

 

[mswlogo]

Anybody who uses OEM "Grand Touring All Season" class tires on the track is an idiot. Your point is not relevant to the thread, which is discussing which tires to use on the street.

I think he is making a great point and might explain the huge variation in tire wear folks see driving the exact same car on the exact same tires. Quick starts in an EV (that goes unnoticed) is probably close to the tire stress that an ICE sees at the drag strip.

I doubt you’ll get more miles out of a low TW sport tire than it’s rated for. But that still could be much higher than the actual TW you get out of a high TW tire put under the same conditions.

And those conditions could be frequent hard starts and spirited cornering. That again, goes unnoticed except by the driver (and passengers).

And just because tires are not squealing doesn’t mean they are not being quickly consumed. Which again leads to more rubber consumption.

 

[miimura]

Everything I've looked at indicates I will need a low rolling resistant tire (I'm enjoying a 227 Wh/mi avg over 31K miles currently). I know I'll have to give some of that up if I go with a wider (245 or 255) to gain some rim rash protection. 5% to 10% is the most I'm willing to give up for this. Tirerack has 245 MXM4 for $176, but they likely do NOT have the acoustic foam. I don't know how much that really matters since I think the MXM4's aren't particularly quiet anyway. I think I'd be willing to go to a 550 to 700 tread rating at the cost of some performance if I could extend the tread life beyond 36K miles. Looking for the right replacement isn't easy!

There are 4 different MXM4's listed on Tire Rack in the 245/45-18 size. The cheap one you mentioned is the 100W (load/speed) rated version. I would totally go for that one over the Telsla OEM one, mostly because it's $110 cheaper PER TIRE. It's also only 1.3% different rev/mile and there is a small chance that it might give you a little more curb rash protection. However, it probably won't. You probably have to go to 255 to get the sidewall meaningfully beyond the rim, but then you will have given up the aerodynamic profile of the tire-wheel system, which will hurt your freeway efficiency.

 

[pdx_m3s]

I *am* happy with

1. low rolling resistance
2. wet/dry performance is acceptable
3. cost is marginally acceptable

I'm NOT happy with the Primacy MXM4's for

1. I think they are noisy (with acoustic foam, really!?)
2. Too narrow / no rim rash protection
3. Lower side of acceptable mileage/treadlife (I'll get ~36K out of mine)

In Southern Cal, I don't care about snow/ice performance.

Everything I've looked at indicates I will need a low rolling resistant tire (I'm enjoying a 227 Wh/mi avg over 31K miles currently). I know I'll have to give some of that up if I go with a wider (245 or 255) to gain some rim rash protection. 5% to 10% is the most I'm willing to give up for this. Tirerack has 245 MXM4 for $176, but they likely do NOT have the acoustic foam. I don't know how much that really matters since I think the MXM4's aren't particularly quiet anyway. I think I'd be willing to go to a 550 to 700 tread rating at the cost of some performance if I could extend the tread life beyond 36K miles. Looking for the right replacement isn't easy!

If you’re relying on your tires to protect your rims, you’re doing it wrong. How about not using your tires as curb feelers?

 

[mswlogo]

I *am* happy with

1. low rolling resistance
2. wet/dry performance is acceptable
3. cost is marginally acceptable

I'm NOT happy with the Primacy MXM4's for

1. I think they are noisy (with acoustic foam, really!?)
2. Too narrow / no rim rash protection
3. Lower side of acceptable mileage/treadlife (I'll get ~36K out of mine)

In Southern Cal, I don't care about snow/ice performance.

Everything I've looked at indicates I will need a low rolling resistant tire (I'm enjoying a 227 Wh/mi avg over 31K miles currently). I know I'll have to give some of that up if I go with a wider (245 or 255) to gain some rim rash protection. 5% to 10% is the most I'm willing to give up for this. Tirerack has 245 MXM4 for $176, but they likely do NOT have the acoustic foam. I don't know how much that really matters since I think the MXM4's aren't particularly quiet anyway. I think I'd be willing to go to a 550 to 700 tread rating at the cost of some performance if I could extend the tread life beyond 36K miles. Looking for the right replacement isn't easy!

Unfortunately there isn’t a lot of choices in 18” OEM size.

Part of the issue is the high load range recommended for 18”. There are quieter, longer tread life and higher efficiency tires but they don’t meet the load range.

Two examples are Pirelli P7+ and Bridgestone QuietTrack. They do meet specs in 19” because the 19” doesn’t require the same load range.

There are few higher Treadwear tires in 18” and I believe higher Treadwear will often lead to higher efficiency. But I’m not so sure the ones available are noted for being quiet. Where the two 19” I mentioned above are.

 

[SammichLover]

Too narrow / no rim rash protection

The narrow section width is important for lower air drag, which in turn means better range.

 

[pdx_m3s]

The narrow section width is important for lower air drag, which in turn means better range.

Exactly. The wide wheel / narrow tire configuration creates a more aerodynamic shape to the wheel and tire assembly (slanted/angled tire sidewall).

 

[mswlogo]

The narrow section width is important for lower air drag, which in turn means better range.

Note that some tires have Rim savers built in, so even with Tesla OEM sizing you can have some protection. Note quite as much as the whole tire being wider than the rim but get some protection and keep the efficient profile.

 

[SammichLover]

I doubt you’ll get more miles out of a low TW sport tire than it’s rated for.

That’s a very important point about setting expectations, and it’s jiving with what I’m seeing w/the 18” PS4S. From what I’ve seen so far I have a good chance to extract high 2x,xxx miles out of those TW 300 tires.

Contrast to 19K I got out of stock MXM4, driving them down to 2/32 on front and nigh zero on the rear. Although there were some variables that would have impacted that, both for better & worse, clearly they weren’t a good match for my driving style in the Model 3.

Seeing clear improvement. Yet no, I’m not going to see some amazingly long lasting wear because I’m simply asking a lot physically out of the tires and that costs & imparts a rather firm ceiling even when I get near optimizing gear selection (and, to an extent, technique by being careful to let the car plant well before hard turn-in, etc).

 

[insaneoctane]

Even with the great price on the MXM4s thru tire rack, I can match it by getting the 245/45-18 Michelin - Pilot Sport A/S 3+ thru my local Costco. This is because I can't find a reputable local tire installer for less than about $25 per tire. My only reluctancy is not knowing what the energy hit will be. I believe that some of the Michelin - Pilot Sport A/S 3+ tires are low rolling resistance, but the required W speed rating probably removes it. Different compound for the higher speed maybe? I'd rather have Costco over the pain of shipping and coaxing a local install (plus the easier lifetime road hazard) but I just don't know what the Wh/mi hit would be...

 

[miimura]

Even with the great price on the MXM4s thru tire rack, I can match it by getting the 245/45-18 Michelin - Pilot Sport A/S 3+ thru my local Costco. This is because I can't find a reputable local tire installer for less than about $25 per tire. My only reluctancy is not knowing what the energy hit will be. I believe that some of the Michelin - Pilot Sport A/S 3+ tires are low rolling resistance, but the required W speed rating probably removes it. Different compound for the higher speed maybe? I'd rather have Costco over the pain of shipping and coaxing a local install (plus the easier lifetime road hazard) but I just don't know what the Wh/mi hit would be...

Some Costco locations tend to be very picky about what tires they will install. The load and speed ratings must meet or exceed what appears on the door jamb sticker. For example, my RAV4 EV came with H rated tires, yet has a 85mph governor. They would not install T rated tires (118mph) and insisted on H (130mph) or above. Are you sure they will install the 245's???

 

[insaneoctane]

Some Costco locations tend to be very picky about what tires they will install. The load and speed ratings must meet or exceed what appears on the door jamb sticker. For example, my RAV4 EV came with H rated tires, yet has a 85mph governor. They would not install T rated tires (118mph) and insisted on H (130mph) or above. Are you sure they will install the 245's???

I did ask them specifically if they would install 245s on my car. They ran some calculations and the % change was small enough they said yes, they would.

 

[miimura]

My only reluctancy is not knowing what the energy hit will be. I believe that some of the Michelin - Pilot Sport A/S 3+ tires are low rolling resistance, but the required W speed rating probably removes it. Different compound for the higher speed maybe? I'd rather have Costco over the pain of shipping and coaxing a local install (plus the easier lifetime road hazard) but I just don't know what the Wh/mi hit would be...

I just looked at the Pilot Sport A/S 3+ specs on Tire Rack. Neither version, the W/Y nor the H/V version is LRR (EcoFocus) rated. Personally, I would not buy those. Costco does have W rated MXM4s (without acoustic foam) for a little higher price.

Personally, I have had very good experiences with Tire Rack installers. I had them shipped to my regular german car independent shop once and a random local tire shop (Skip's Tire) once with good results. My coworker also had Tire Rack tires shipped to Wheel Works with good results.

If you really want to buy Michelins from Costco, I would wait for their Michelin sale to come around again if you can. They are currently running the sale on Bridgestone through Aug 6th, so they might flip to Michelin shortly after that. The last time the Michelin sale ran was late May to mid-June.

 

[insaneoctane]

I just looked at the Pilot Sport A/S 3+ specs on Tire Rack. Neither version, the W/Y nor the H/V version is LRR (EcoFocus) rated. Personally, I would not buy those. Costco does have W rated MXM4s (without acoustic foam) for a little higher price.

Personally, I have had very good experiences with Tire Rack installers. I had them shipped to my regular german car independent shop once and a random local tire shop (Skip's Tire) once with good results. My coworker also had Tire Rack tires shipped to Wheel Works with good results.

If you really want to buy Michelins from Costco, I would wait for their Michelin sale to come around again if you can. They are currently running the sale on Bridgestone through Aug 6th, so they might flip to Michelin shortly after that. The last time the Michelin sale ran was late May to mid-June.

Agreed on waiting for the cyclical Michelin sale if I were going to do that. I've got a couple options today between the MXM4 and the Pilot Sport A/S 3+. The edge would go to the MXM4s, although, admittedly, I'm currently not impressed with their noise and that's WITH the acoustic foam, so not sure what to expect there. I'm probably good through the summer on my current MXM4s which are at 31K miles, so I'll re-evaluate the options once Costco goes with their next Michelin sale or my tread starts to make me nervous....let's see which comes first!

As always, thanks for the inputs!

 

[scottysize]

Looking to hear from anyone who has replaced their 18" tires.

1. Which brand and model did you choose?
2. which size? (standard or changed to...)
3. Cost and shop?
4. why did you pick these?
5. Can you compare Wh/mi to OEM?
6. Can you compare noise to OEM?

Thanks for spending the effort to reply. My replacements are due soon and I'm looking for choices!

I replaced my tires at 20,000 miles. I love the new ones. My only concern now is longevity. My energy consumption remained the same, even thought I went wider.

1. Michelin Pilot Sport 4S
2. Changed to 255 / 40 ZR18 (I wanted wider tires to try and cover the wheels to protect from curb rash. These almost do it.
3. $600 with Road Hazard at Discount Tire. I paid for 2 and Michelin paid for 2 as my OEMs wore out faster than advertised.
4. I did a ton of research. I found these to be the highest rated at the time.
5. My Wh/M remained the sameish. i might ahve gone down maybe 20, but in a resent trip I took, I actually got better Wh/M between Super Chargers.
6. Noise is the same. No difference that I can tell.