19" rims with P90D?

[vapor trail]

Still mulling options while waiting for the big MX reveal next week.

Anyone out there order 19" rims with performance option on their MS? I know that 21" rims will offer better try condition traction, etc, but I'm not super-enthused about the harsher ride.

 

[dirkhh]

I have >9k miles on my P85D on 19" ... no problems with traction at all. Had loaners with 21" a couple of times and found the ride noticeably more harsh and loud.
I don't think there's any reason to think that the equation is any different with a P90DL

 

[jcoverton]

I ordered my P90D​, which will be delivered next week, with 19" rims. I did test ride both sizes. I have always had performance tires on my cars and I may order the 21" wheel set from Tesla if I feel I made a mistake. I can order the 21" Turbine Wheel and Tire Package for $5,500 only $1,000 more than the upgrade costs when I ordered the car. In the end if I order the 21" afterwards I will have two sets of tires for the $1,000 difference. If I bought the 21" rims to start, I would probably buy the 19" rims for snow anyway, and the total cost would be more.

 

[MsElectric]

Still mulling options while waiting for the big MX reveal next week.

Anyone out there order 19" rims with performance option on their MS? I know that 21" rims will offer better try condition traction, etc, but I'm not super-enthused about the harsher ride.

Keep in mind that it is not just a matter of the wheel size but sometimes more a matter of the actual rubber in the tires you select. The 19" wheels come with all season tires. SO yes, you will get better dry traction with 21" wheels but that is partially because the 21" wheels come with summer tires.

I recently test drove a P90D at the local tesla gallery. It came with 19" wheels and it drove and handled like a dream.

Why not take cars with both wheel configurations for a drive and go with what you prefer? To some extent it is a matter of personal preference.

The 21" wheels may give you an edge in handling when you push the car but the 19" wheels offer about 5% more range, they are quieter, and more comfortable while also being more durable according to the Tesla order page.

 

[Pete90D]

Here's my experience with 21" wheels and why I'm glad I got them.

It was hard to make a good comparison, but when GG drove my P90DL with 21" wheels it felt smoother and quieter than his 19" wheels. There are a lot of factors so I can't say too much either way based on that drive. At low speeds (<30mph) on rough roads I can feel some vibration through the steering wheel, but it's very minor. At highway speeds and a little below it's really smooth and I love how it feels.

They handle really well. When I tested the lateral G forces I looked at the sidewalls afterwards and the wear didn't bleed into the sidewall so I know they aren't rolling over on themselves in turns. I don't think you get staggered wheels with 19s, but I may be wrong.

 

[dirkhh]

Here's my experience with 21" wheels and why I'm glad I got them.

It was hard to make a good comparison, but when GG drove my P90DL with 21" wheels it felt smoother and quieter than his 19" wheels. There are a lot of factors so I can't say too much either way based on that drive. At low speeds (<30mph) on rough roads I can feel some vibration through the steering wheel, but it's very minor. At highway speeds and a little below it's really smooth and I love how it feels.

They handle really well. When I tested the lateral G forces I looked at the sidewalls afterwards and the wear didn't bleed into the sidewall so I know they aren't rolling over on themselves in turns. I don't think you get staggered wheels with 19s, but I may be wrong.

19" are note staggered - so at times are the 21". But what caught my attention was your comment that you felt they were quieter. I don't think I've heard this argument before from proponents of the 21". Usually it's looks and occasionally a believe that they provide better traction (but I don't believe anyone has ever shown conclusive data that this is indeed the case). The sales team in Portland and the folks at the service center consistently state that the 21" are louder and less comfortable - and that certainly matches my experience when I had loaners (including one that was in all other aspects an exact clone of my P85D).

 

[Pete90D]

19" are note staggered - so at times are the 21". But what caught my attention was your comment that you felt they were quieter. I don't think I've heard this argument before from proponents of the 21". Usually it's looks and occasionally a believe that they provide better traction (but I don't believe anyone has ever shown conclusive data that this is indeed the case). The sales team in Portland and the folks at the service center consistently state that the 21" are louder and less comfortable - and that certainly matches my experience when I had loaners (including one that was in all other aspects an exact clone of my P85D).

21" wheels on the PXXDs are now staggered.

Sorry if it sounded like I was saying they were quieter that wasn't really what I meant. I just made an anecdotal comment that the only 19" wheels I've ridden on didn't seem as quiet. That could have been caused by a lot of things. GG's was built at a different time, so maybe sound deadening has improved, or maybe the wear pattern on the tires was what caused it. He also has different suspension than I do, which could contribute.

Low profile tires are definitely louder and harsher. If I put 19s on mine it would probably be smoother, but by how much? Maybe a lot of people that say they are super harsh drove them before a change that was made and maybe the 21s aren't as bad anymore. When sorka rode with me he commented that 21s on his would be much harsher.

Also keep in mind that they stopped running Michelins a while back and suspension changed since then (according to various data points in threads) so going back to Michelins and combined with a different suspension may make a difference.

I guess what I'm saying is, if 19s used to put out Xdb of noise, and 21s put out (X+5)db, but 19s now put out (X-5)db and 21s now put out (X-1)db, then they are quieter than 19s used to be. Still louder than 19s, but better than the 19s used to be and that might make them more tolerable for more people.

 

[vapor trail]

Thanks for everyone's comments. Sounds like 19" rims will pair nicely with any MS I configure!

 

[Plan B]

19"s on a P90D is like wearing socks with sandals.

 

[trils0n]

Just curious as I don't have a P90D, just a classic P85. I got my car with the 21s with Continental DW. After 25k miles with those I decided to give the 19s with the stock Michelins a try. They break traction well under full throttle on launch, and have much less grip in the corners. Stopping distance is noticeably longer. The steering also feels more sluggish and not quite as sharp. It's all basically what I expected going from high performance summer to all season tires, but I think the car really shines with the summer tires.

Anyway:
My question is since my car shares the same rear drive unit with the P85D and P90D, I'd assume they'd also be able to break the rears free pretty easily if equipped with the same tires. Surprised to see a number of reports of "no problems with traction with the 19s". Is the torque split with the AWD tuned so that the rear motor doesn't produce enough power to break the rears free or does it have different traction control? What's the story?

 

[Pete90D]

Just curious as I don't have a P90D, just a classic P85. I got my car with the 21s with Continental DW. After 25k miles with those I decided to give the 19s with the stock Michelins a try. They break traction well under full throttle on launch, and have much less grip in the corners. Stopping distance is noticeably longer. The steering also feels more sluggish and not quite as sharp. It's all basically what I expected going from high performance summer to all season tires, but I think the car really shines with the summer tires.

Anyway:
My question is since my car shares the same rear drive unit with the P85D and P90D, I'd assume they'd also be able to break the rears free pretty easily if equipped with the same tires. Surprised to see a number of reports of "no problems with traction with the 19s". Is the torque split with the AWD tuned so that the rear motor doesn't produce enough power to break the rears free or does it have different traction control? What's the story?

I'm not sure what the difference is in the rear wheel vs dual motor regarding traction, but it isn't limited to 19s. I only have experience with the 21" wheels, but I drove a P85+ with new staggered Michelins and I would break traction launching at a light. It's really rare if I break traction in the P90D and if I do it's brief because of gravel or something. The P85+ would bog down like cars do when traction control kicks in. I have lost traction doing a U-turn in the P90D and when it catches it's like letting a rubber band go.

One of the reasons I didn't like the rear wheel drive car. Doesn't matter if I never launch, I don't like breaking traction if I need to get out of the way quickly.

 

[dirkhh]

19"s on a P90D is like wearing socks with sandals.

View attachment 95309

Tsk tsk tsk... I am considering feeling attacked... my car looks awesome. No spoiler, no red calipers (but MCRed car), no badge... most people guess it's a red S60. Until I hit the fun pedal

- - - Updated - - -

My question is since my car shares the same rear drive unit with the P85D and P90D, I'd assume they'd also be able to break the rears free pretty easily if equipped with the same tires. Surprised to see a number of reports of "no problems with traction with the 19s". Is the torque split with the AWD tuned so that the rear motor doesn't produce enough power to break the rears free or does it have different traction control? What's the story?

Many many launches in my P85D with all year 19". Don't remember ever breaking traction. I think the magic is that the 'D' shifts power around quite quickly. I don't tend to be extremely aggressive when cornering, so can't comment on the 19" disadvantage there. But simple physics would say that you likely have a very valid point simply because of the softer rubber combined with a larger foot print.

 

[trils0n]

Thanks for the responses Pete90D and dirkhh. I feel like I have to baby the P85 with the 19" all seasons compared to being able to hammer the fun pedal with 21s and summer tires (even if I did get the occasional "bog down" feeling of traction control). Impressive to see that the D seems to overcome at least part of those issues. Enjoy your cars!

 

[Plan B]

Tsk tsk tsk... I am considering feeling attacked....

I like the fact that you are "considering" feeling attacked.

 

[DanKeen]

My P90D is on the all-season 19" wheels. It easily spins the fronts for the first 10mph or so. Probably would be better with the 21s but I like my socks and sandals. The car is a really fast cruiser, not a sports car.

(BTW, I know it's not this thread, but I don't post much, so Pete90D: the 1.1g you got on the the VBOX for lateral doesn't mean much. What matters is sustained lateral g's on a skidpad. It's easy to get very high transitional instantaneous g's. Find a 300' skidpad and retest, and I doubt you'll get much over high 0.8x with the car. It's just not set up for it. My track car pulls 1.2g's sustained and there's a world of difference between the two.)

 

[dirkhh]

My P90D is on the all-season 19" wheels. It easily spins the fronts for the first 10mph or so.

I'm really curious about this. Which tires do you have? How many miles on them? As a 90 it must be quite new. Unless there is sand or water on the road I have never managed to even get noticeable traction control to happen at a launch. Spinning wheels? Given how insanely fast the traction control reacts (<0.02 seconds to remove power from the engine) I'd be shocked if the wheels actually spin for you (let's define this, for the sake of argument, as a slip of at least a quarter turn). At 10mph that would be... 0.1 second response time. That seems like your traction control isn't working. Do you have slip start enabled?

 

[ArtInCT]

Recently, the P90D's (that I have seen here in CT) ship with 19" stock wheels have been equipped from the factory with (OEM) Michelin Primacy MXM4 tires in 245/45 - 19. Insane or Ludicrous that is what you get. This is a GREENX low rolling resistance all season tire. Probably NOT a sticky tread compound.

Probably a step up in performance in the 19" arena for aftermarket tires would be the Michelin Pilot Sport 3 A/S which is a summer tire and will probably not wear as well but appears to have a stickier compound.

 

[DanKeen]

The traction control is working fine It's not lighting them up like a burnout for the first bit of time, they're just slipping as it keeps trying to re-apply power while the weight is transferring to the rear of the car and offloading the front tires. It hasn't rained here in a while so roads are a bit dusty.

This is a decent traction control system - tires generate most traction with a bit of slip, and you want to keep pushing the envelope. I'm not sure if they've modeled appropriately the weight transfer into their control algorithm because it feels like it's surprised by it and could be more robust, but overall it works well.

 

[bhzmark]

See my other posts. There is no evidence that the 21" wheels are better on any performance metric.

If you like boy racer looks, or want to give a higher margin to the mfr. get the 21. Otherwise the 19 make much more sense.

 

[DanKeen]

See my other posts. There is no evidence that the 21" wheels are better on any performance metric.

If you like boy racer looks, or want to give a higher margin to the mfr. get the 21. Otherwise the 19 make much more sense.

The actual compound of the tires is empirically significantly better.