19" sports wheel vs 19" sports wheel V2

[jyavenard]

I just got 19" wheel fitted on my 2019 Performance Stealth that I got 2nd hand from a Tesla model 3 2021. So those are the "V2" ones, which are supposed to be slightly more efficient that the earlier version.

I've read heaps about the expected range loss going from 18" to 19" , but all the reports of those were produced quite early on, so done with the early version.

On the model 3, in the wheel configuration screen, you can choose between the two:

Are there any data available comparing the performance of the two?
I got the OEM Hankook (HANKOOK 235/40R19 96W K127 VENTUS S1 EVO3 (TO)Silent)

 

[MasterC17]

I just got 19" wheel fitted on my 2019 Performance Stealth that I got 2nd hand from a Tesla model 3 2021. So those are the "V2" ones, which are supposed to be slightly more efficient that the earlier version.

I've read heaps about the expected range loss going from 18" to 19" , but all the reports of those were produced quite early on, so done with the early version.

On the model 3, in the wheel configuration screen, you can choose between the two:
View attachment 793032

Are there any data available comparing the performance of the two?
I got the OEM Hankook (HANKOOK 235/40R19 96W K127 VENTUS S1 EVO3 (TO)Silent)

I have those Hankook's and they are a pretty decent tire. But, they are definitely not going to get you the same range as the 18" MXM4. The Hankook's are a summer tire, and efficiency is probably similar to the OEM 19" All-Season Continental's, if not slightly worse. On the bright side, the handling characteristics of the Hankook's are certainly much better than the other two options.

 

[jackmott]

I just got 19" wheel fitted on my 2019 Performance Stealth that I got 2nd hand from a Tesla model 3 2021. So those are the "V2" ones, which are supposed to be slightly more efficient that the earlier version.

I've read heaps about the expected range loss going from 18" to 19" , but all the reports of those were produced quite early on, so done with the early version.

On the model 3, in the wheel configuration screen, you can choose between the two:
View attachment 793032

Are there any data available comparing the performance of the two?
I got the OEM Hankook (HANKOOK 235/40R19 96W K127 VENTUS S1 EVO3 (TO)Silent)

it is the tires that primarily cause range difference, not the wheel. If you want good range there are 19” MXM4 that fit

 

[jyavenard]

I have those Hankook's and they are a pretty decent tire. But, they are definitely not going to get you the same range as the 18" MXM4. The Hankook's are a summer tire, and efficiency is probably similar to the OEM 19" All-Season Continental's, if not slightly worse. On the bright side, the handling characteristics of the Hankook's are certainly much better than the other two options.

I live in Australia.
The concept of winter tires is pretty remote

The 18" came with Michelin PS4.
Long Range come with 19" Hankook, not continental (also not available in Oz)

I've done over 600km so far, and I can't say I've noticed a significant loss in range so far; in fact it's been quite the opposite which is quite surprising.
They have certainly more quiet than the Michelin.

 

[jyavenard]

it is the tires that primarily cause range difference, not the wheel. If you want good range there are 19” MXM4 that fit

nothing could be further from the truth unfortunately.

Also the MXM4 aren't available in Oz.

 

[jackmott]

nothing could be further from the truth unfortunately.

Also the MXM4 aren't available in Oz.

What is not true exactly and why do you think it is not true?

 

[jyavenard]

What is not true exactly and why do you think it is not true?

This video tries to dumb it down a bit:

But one of the primary reason is the side drag resistance; tyres being a flat surface on the size have almost none, leaving the wheel. The bigger the wheel, the higher the drag (and that's not impacted by the weight of the wheel)

 

[jackmott]

Yeah, I've seen that video. The aerodynamics of different wheel sizes and shapes is a minor second order effect. For instance the difference in the EPA range of the Model 3's different wheel/tire configurations:

18" aero MXM4 tires - 358miles
19" sport wheels Continental Procontact RX or Hankook Ventus S1evo3 tires: 334 miles
20" Uberturbines Pirelli PZero tires: 315 miles

Can almost entirely be explained by the differences in tire rolling resistance alone. The MXM4 is probably the lowest CRR tire on the market. Of course we know that the aero covers on the 18" wheels are worth ~5% on those wheels from Tesla claims and one good independent test, but that is a rather extreme case, where you go from a specifically aero design to a wheel that is very un-aero with the covers off. The differences between the various 19" and 20" Tesla wheels is going to be much less than 5%, as they are all semi aero to begin with. (Except maybe the Zero G wheel?)

I think if you got Jason in here he would agree!

This video tries to dumb it down a bit:

But one of the primary reason is the side drag resistance; tyres being a flat surface on the size have almost none, leaving the wheel. The bigger the wheel, the higher the drag (and that's not impacted by the weight of the wheel)

 

[MasterC17]

Yeah, I've seen that video. The aerodynamics of different wheel sizes and shapes is a minor second order effect. For instance the difference in the EPA range of the Model 3's different wheel/tire configurations:

18" aero MXM4 tires - 358miles
19" sport wheels Continental Procontact RX or Hankook Ventus S1evo3 tires: 334 miles
20" Uberturbines Pirelli PZero tires: 315 miles

Can almost entirely be explained by the differences in tire rolling resistance alone. The MXM4 is probably the lowest CRR tire on the market. Of course we know that the aero covers on the 18" wheels are worth ~5% on those wheels from Tesla claims and one good independent test, but that is a rather extreme case, where you go from a specifically aero design to a wheel that is very un-aero with the covers off. The differences between the various 19" and 20" Tesla wheels is going to be much less than 5%, as they are all semi aero to begin with. (Except maybe the Zero G wheel?)

I think if you got Jason in here he would agree!

This is absolutely correct. It is considerably more related to the tire's rolling resistance than it is to the wheel. Don't get me wrong, the wheel certainly has some affect, but not nearly to the degree the tires do. Additionally, rolling resistances vary drastically from say the MXM4 to a 200TW tire. The changes from the best "aero" wheel shape to the worst will be relatively small in comparison.

I live in Australia.
The concept of winter tires is pretty remote

The 18" came with Michelin PS4.
Long Range come with 19" Hankook, not continental (also not available in Oz)

I've done over 600km so far, and I can't say I've noticed a significant loss in range so far; in fact it's been quite the opposite which is quite surprising.
They have certainly more quiet than the Michelin.

This makes sense then. The PS4 and the evo3 have roughly the same rolling resistances, probably a slight edge to the evo3.

The 18" Michelin we get here in the US is the All-Season MXM4 and it has super low rolling resistance. It's just, unfortunately, a pretty bad tire in all other regards.

 

[DougDC]

If you are also accelerating and decelerating a lot, a bigger wheel with the same mass of a smaller wheel (but only difference is size), will increase the inertia.

 

[jackmott]

If you are also accelerating and decelerating a lot, a bigger wheel with the same mass of a smaller wheel (but only difference is size), will increase the inertia.

Yes, this is a true thing but the received wisdom among car guys believes the effect to be much larger than it really is. On the 2nd tab of my vehicle maths spreadsheet you can work through various scenarios and see the impact of wheel mass and inertia on acceleration rates or energy use:

Vehicle Energy Maths

Highway Range From Wheel/Tire Changes Original Car Mass (lbs),4200 Battery Capacity (kWh),82 Cruising Speed (mph),70 Cd,0.23 Frontal Area,2.22 Starting Wheel/Tire Package,Modified Wheel Tire Package Wheel/Tire Weight (lbs),100,80 Tire CRR in (kg/t),7,7 Range (miles),301.7286608,302.2162577 Vehic...

docs.google.com

There can be significant impacts on braking heat and fuel/energy use in road racing scenarios due to the high speeds making the inertia more impactful, but for road use the impact on range is negligible.

 

[DougDC]

Very insightful post! Thanks for sharing that.

 

[zyoppy008]

This is absolutely correct. It is considerably more related to the tire's rolling resistance than it is to the wheel. Don't get me wrong, the wheel certainly has some affect, but not nearly to the degree the tires do. Additionally, rolling resistances vary drastically from say the MXM4 to a 200TW tire. The changes from the best "aero" wheel shape to the worst will be relatively small in comparison.


This makes sense then. The PS4 and the evo3 have roughly the same rolling resistances, probably a slight edge to the evo3.

The 18" Michelin we get here in the US is the All-Season MXM4 and it has super low rolling resistance. It's just, unfortunately, a pretty bad tire in all other regards.

for M3LR, do you think it is good to choose OEM 19'' or OEM 18'' ?

 

[MasterC17]

for M3LR, do you think it is good to choose OEM 19'' or OEM 18'' ?

I'm assuming you mean for a new build configuration? 18" will net you better range, but the 19" tire is better at just about everything else, especially wear characteristics.

 

[drpheta]

Personally, unless it came with the car, I'd rather take the cheapest wheel configuration and go aftermarket.

 

[BoganDad]

Hi,
For me then it comes down to freeway range and ride characteristics. Apparently the EPA rated the RWD at 260 miles of range with the aeros - does anybody know what the range would be with sport rims?

I want to move up my delivery date for a RWD, and was told (after changing to white interior) that wheel or color changes would do that.

 

[BoganDad]

To amend that - 260 miles highway.

 

[jackmott]

Hi,
For me then it comes down to freeway range and ride characteristics. Apparently the EPA rated the RWD at 260 miles of range with the aeros - does anybody know what the range would be with sport rims?

I want to move up my delivery date for a RWD, and was told (after changing to white interior) that wheel or color changes would do that.

EPA range is 272 with the 18" wheel-tire combo, 267 with the 19" wheel tire combo. Keep in mind you won't actually get that range on the highway, as that range number is combination of highway and city driving.

 

[MasterC17]

Hi,
For me then it comes down to freeway range and ride characteristics. Apparently the EPA rated the RWD at 260 miles of range with the aeros - does anybody know what the range would be with sport rims?

I want to move up my delivery date for a RWD, and was told (after changing to white interior) that wheel or color changes would do that.

I would expect to lose about 5% of your range moving from the 18's with the MXM4's to the 19's with the Continental's.

Regardless, you are probably going to be closer to 200 miles of range at highway speeds either way. EPA Rated range is a combination of city and highway driving and does not exceed 55mph.

That being said, the 19" Continental is a superior tire to the 18" MXM4 is every way besides range, and will last about twice as long.

 

[BoganDad]

EPA range is 272 with the 18" wheel-tire combo, 267 with the 19" wheel tire combo. Keep in mind you won't actually get that range on the highway, as that range number is combination of highway and city driving.

The unusual thing about this EPA rating range is that it gives the rear wheel drive version with FLP batteries 260 miles highway range. The highway range ratings for Teslas are usually pretty spot on.